Ford 1700 - Voltage Regulator replacement
pclausen
Veteran Member
The thing is that with the old regulator I was getting 18+ volts across the battery terminal with the engine running. I don't see how that would be possible if the alternator was not working?
pclausen
Veteran Member
I went ahead and ordered this one (ACDelco 334-1547):
Amazon.com: ACDelco 334-1547 Professional Alternator, Remanufactured: Automotive
If you look at the pic of the back, it is indeed a Hitachi and the connectors match what is on mine. $50 to my door and free return if that is not it.
Fingers crossed that will sort out the issue and perhaps even work with my solid state regulator and my old one too probably if the alternator is indeed the issue.
Amazon.com: ACDelco 334-1547 Professional Alternator, Remanufactured: Automotive
If you look at the pic of the back, it is indeed a Hitachi and the connectors match what is on mine. $50 to my door and free return if that is not it.
Fingers crossed that will sort out the issue and perhaps even work with my solid state regulator and my old one too probably if the alternator is indeed the issue.
The first regulator I bought said it was a direct fit for SBA185516030 but it did not work so be cautious with what you are getting. I tried to research the numbers I could see from image on the link you posted. I found nothing, even from the Unipoint catalogs those numbers don't come up. The connector types have to match. the wire can be removed and put in the right position but you need to find out how that connector is configured. Bottom line on any VR is that the Ford 1700 runs the HBA12-2 connector type.
pclausen
Veteran Member
Got the new alternator installed this morning and I'm getting the same thing. With the solid state regulator, it is not charging at all. With the old regulator (and new alternator), after I start the engine and run at a high idle around 1,000 rpm the voltage across the battery terminals start out at around 16 volt and slowly climbs and get to 17 volt in about 60 seconds at which point I shut her back down.
The guy I purchased the solid state regular from gave me a full refund and told me to keep it. So I'm just out $50 for a new alternator that I didn't need, but I'll keep it to have a spare around (will probably just leave it on the tractor and keep the original as a spare).
I did some quick testing of the old VR before putting it back on, and I can't find anything wrong with it. The contacts on both relays test fine and neither coil appears to be open. Neither resistor is open, but I haven't yet unsoldered the individual pieces to test them, so I guess that is what's next. Will also check all the wiring and fuses just to make sure I didn't miss anything there.
The guy I purchased the solid state regular from gave me a full refund and told me to keep it. So I'm just out $50 for a new alternator that I didn't need, but I'll keep it to have a spare around (will probably just leave it on the tractor and keep the original as a spare).
I did some quick testing of the old VR before putting it back on, and I can't find anything wrong with it. The contacts on both relays test fine and neither coil appears to be open. Neither resistor is open, but I haven't yet unsoldered the individual pieces to test them, so I guess that is what's next. Will also check all the wiring and fuses just to make sure I didn't miss anything there.
thclimer
Veteran Member
My electrical background is very limited.
I know its a long shot, but I've attached some pages from the service manual for a TC29D which I know is not your tractor model in the hopes it may help you with your troubleshooting.
pclausen
Veteran Member
Thanks for those pages! I have added them to my stash of documentation that I'm accumulating.
So I rigged up the fuel tank so that I can run the engine and have access to the regulator at the same time.
I checked the wiring between the alternator and regulator in particular the F and N terminals. They both check good. I also verified that both relay coils on the regulator are good (applied 12V), they are.
As soon as the engine starts, one of the relays is energized and the charge lamp turns off. The coil on this relay is the one wired in series with the small resistor. So I know that is good.
The other relay is never energized, which keeps the circuit energized that feeds the field and keeps the alternator charging the battery with excess voltage.
I found this general description of how the interaction between an automotive alternator and regulator:
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The voltage regulator controls the field current applied to the spinning rotor inside the alternator. When there is no current applied to the field, there is no voltage produced from the alternator. When voltage drops below 13.5 volts, the regulator will apply current to the field and the alternator will start charging. When the voltage exceeds 14.5 volts, the regulator will stop supplying voltage to the field and the alternator will stop charging. This is how voltage output from the alternator is regulated. Amperage or current is regulated by the state of charge of the battery. When the battery is weak, the electromotive force (voltage) is not strong enough to hold back the current from the alternator trying to recharge the battery. As the battery reaches a state of full charge, the electromotive force becomes strong enough to oppose the current flow from the alternator, the amperage output from the alternator will drop to close to zero, while the voltage will remain at 13.5 to 14.5.
--- cut ---
Not sure what else to check at this point...
So I rigged up the fuel tank so that I can run the engine and have access to the regulator at the same time.
I checked the wiring between the alternator and regulator in particular the F and N terminals. They both check good. I also verified that both relay coils on the regulator are good (applied 12V), they are.
As soon as the engine starts, one of the relays is energized and the charge lamp turns off. The coil on this relay is the one wired in series with the small resistor. So I know that is good.
The other relay is never energized, which keeps the circuit energized that feeds the field and keeps the alternator charging the battery with excess voltage.
I found this general description of how the interaction between an automotive alternator and regulator:
--- cut ---
The voltage regulator controls the field current applied to the spinning rotor inside the alternator. When there is no current applied to the field, there is no voltage produced from the alternator. When voltage drops below 13.5 volts, the regulator will apply current to the field and the alternator will start charging. When the voltage exceeds 14.5 volts, the regulator will stop supplying voltage to the field and the alternator will stop charging. This is how voltage output from the alternator is regulated. Amperage or current is regulated by the state of charge of the battery. When the battery is weak, the electromotive force (voltage) is not strong enough to hold back the current from the alternator trying to recharge the battery. As the battery reaches a state of full charge, the electromotive force becomes strong enough to oppose the current flow from the alternator, the amperage output from the alternator will drop to close to zero, while the voltage will remain at 13.5 to 14.5.
--- cut ---
Not sure what else to check at this point...
stevem5215
Platinum Member
- Joined
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You might want to just go with a GM car alternator and eliminate all of the other stuff. I put one of the 3 wire ones on our FarmPro (chinese) 2420 and it's been working good for like the last 7 years. I bought it for $39 at Advance Auto at the time.
Steve
Steve
rdgemmill
New member
I am having the same issue with my ford 1910. It seems that both tractors take the same regulator, my OEM voltage regulator is a Hitachi TL1Z-61D. Before I started messing with it I noticed that the thing was allowing the alternator to put out at least 17 volts to the battery. I suspect it was the cause of my previous battery's failure. I wound up pulling and repairing the ceramic core center tap resistor. The left side of it was clearly burnt and was open (this side has smaller gauge wire). The right side was ok and measured 10 ohms (this side had bigger gauge wire). Based on the wire I pulled off the left side its resistance was around 15 ohms (if your left side is only .4 ohms, then I would suspect yours is open like mine was). My single resistor is 33.8 ohms. After reinstalling the repaired VR (resistor repair only with nichrome 80 wire), I am still getting the same high reading of 17-18 volts at the battery. The reason I am replying to you is that I also bought a solid state VR and it didn't work at all. The charge light stays on all the time unless I have a battery charger on it and the battery is fully charged when I turn the key to the run position. Anyway the thing is worthless to me. However, a year or more ago, I read a post here from someone who experienced the exact same thing we did with the solid state VR. He mentioned that he got his to work after changing a few wires around. I have been searching for that post to see if I can ask him exactly what he did. Maybe between the 2 of us we can find it and search him out to ask exactly what he did. I'm pretty sure my alternator is fine but I wouldn't bet my life on it quite yet. I hate to buy any more VRs not knowing if they will fix my problem. If you are interested I can scan the troubleshooting section of my shop manual for you, there is an excellent write up on the VR operation. I sure would appreciate any advice that you may have for me. I am very interested in finding a small alternator with an internal VR and bypassing the external VR setup that I have now. Hope you're doing better than I am with this.
Thanks,
RDG
pclausen
Veteran Member
I still have not gotten my alternator / external regular working, and now that spring is here, I need to get it sorted out.
I went ahead and ordered a Hitachi LR135 alternator. This one is used on '78 and later Datsun 620 trucks and are internally regulated.
I came to this place:
And the wiring looks dead simple:
$70 from Advance Auto with a $20 core:
So hopefully I'll be back in business soon.
I went ahead and ordered a Hitachi LR135 alternator. This one is used on '78 and later Datsun 620 trucks and are internally regulated.
I came to this place:
And the wiring looks dead simple:
$70 from Advance Auto with a $20 core:
So hopefully I'll be back in business soon.
Last edited:
pclausen
Veteran Member
Swapping in an alternator with an internal regular fixed it!
Here's external vs. internal:
They are virtually identical. Even the little booklets are clearly from the same place:
There is no need to change the wiring on that little T-connector on the alternator.
The N terminal (labeled S for Sensor on the new alternator), goes to 12V from the ignition.
The F terminal (labeled L for Lamp on the new alternator), goes to the Charge Light.
To accomplish both of the above, all you have to do is to cut the connector off the old regulator and then jumper a couple of the pins together like this:
N is jumped to IG to provide 12V to the Sensor input on the new alternator.
F is jumped to L which allows the Lamp signal from the new alternator to control the charge lamp in the dashboard.
Works like a champ now. When the ignition on and engine not running both the low pressure and charge lights are on. Once engine is running, the charge light goes out and I get around 14.6 volts across the battery terminals.
Just waiting on my new T-connector pigtail to come in, and I'll swap out the original one and complete the wire loom.
Hope some will find this useful in the future. Oh and the alternator came with unlimited lifetime warranty.
Here's external vs. internal:
They are virtually identical. Even the little booklets are clearly from the same place:
There is no need to change the wiring on that little T-connector on the alternator.
The N terminal (labeled S for Sensor on the new alternator), goes to 12V from the ignition.
The F terminal (labeled L for Lamp on the new alternator), goes to the Charge Light.
To accomplish both of the above, all you have to do is to cut the connector off the old regulator and then jumper a couple of the pins together like this:
N is jumped to IG to provide 12V to the Sensor input on the new alternator.
F is jumped to L which allows the Lamp signal from the new alternator to control the charge lamp in the dashboard.
Works like a champ now. When the ignition on and engine not running both the low pressure and charge lights are on. Once engine is running, the charge light goes out and I get around 14.6 volts across the battery terminals.
Just waiting on my new T-connector pigtail to come in, and I'll swap out the original one and complete the wire loom.
Hope some will find this useful in the future. Oh and the alternator came with unlimited lifetime warranty.
thclimer
Veteran Member
Thanks for posting your fix so that other will benefit in the future and great pictures!
pclausen, you didn't have to wait too long; I found it very useful. This was my exact problem on a Ford 1700 I'm bringing back to life. Thanks for sharing everything! Links were all very helpful, as well as your guide to the pigtail for the voltage regulator. I thought I'd be done with the swap tonight but I bent the old top mount bolt pulling the old alternator off - next time I'm at the shop I'll be able to check everything.
To offer even more help to the next guy, I found the alternator pclausen ID'd on rockauto by looking up a Nissan 620. No warranty on their website, but you can get the alternator for $35-$45. I tried the PureEnergy offering.
RockAuto 14231 Alternator for 1978 Nissan 620 Pickup
Seems like a $45 alternator upgrade is the ideal fix for a bad $65 external voltage regulator.
-- Aaron
