Flying a Helicopter?

[crash325]

Keep in mind that "take off is optional - but landing is mandatory.
I had a ride in an Army helo in about 1946. Canvas covered pipe, no doors or seat belts, if memory is correct.

A fair amount of time at controls of light AC.

Lots of hours flying RC AC. Was an instructor for many years. A little time with RC gliders.
All of it lots of fun. Liked the building about as much as flying.

Also flew "u" control for several years. Even entered a few contests.

If you want to see helos or RC planes do unbelievable things check of a local RC field.

Still have a few planes & would like to fly them some more. Even cleared off a field a few years ago.
Just lack of time & $$ holding me back.:confused3:

 

[adventure bob]

The hardest helicopter to fly today is the Osprey. Osprey pilots will tell you that during transition, there's a moment in time where there's not enough rotor lift to be a helicopter anymore and not enough forward motion/wing surface to be an airplane. They say if your a pilot you can kind of feel that moment and its mildly disconcerting, and there's nothing you can do about it except hope the computer gets it right.

 

[houstonscott]

The hardest helicopter to fly today is the Osprey. Osprey pilots will tell you that during transition, there's a moment in time where there's not enough rotor lift to be a helicopter anymore and not enough forward motion/wing surface to be an airplane. They say if your a pilot you can kind of feel that moment and its mildly disconcerting, and there's nothing you can do about it except hope the computer gets it right.

Well because it just goes from point A to point B it's only one third of what's happening in an Apache, and it doesn't do nap of earth flight at night. E model Apache is the hardest most complicated flying machine ever made. HS

 

[Gary Fowler]

I had a friend who took me up in a two seater glider once. It was very, very cool, but I was surprised at how noisy it was, simply because of the wind.

I have also been up in a small plane, most recently when we circumnavigated the island of Kauai in Hawaii. The scenery was spectacular, but I was so "seasick" by the end of the ride that I had to lay down for an hour! Will never do that again, but I would love to ride in a helicopter. Is it really less obnoxious in terms of the effects on your stomach? That is what I've heard, namely that a helo shakes you up but you don't get those long ups and downs which are what really upsets the vestibular system and makes you seasick in a small plane. Any comments?

A helicopter is just as susceptible to the updrafts and down drafts as a fixed wing craft, if anything more so although I suppose that a good pilot could quickly add more lift to compensate for a sudden down draft. Those are not very common and mostly you get the heat effect little bumps which will effect any kind of flying machine travelling thru them. Remember that a rotor wing uses the same principle of airfoil as a fixed wing; they just move the wing thru the air in a different manner so both are in the same boat as far as rising and falling air currents.

 

[oosik]

During the '60's, while working for Fish & Game in AK, we were fortunate to have the services of the Army to provide access to remote locations. They would chopper us in, set up a base camp and provide any and all transportation needed. I still remember riding in the choppers called "the flying banana". Made my 'ol butt pucker up and trade places with my belly button. The Army justified these excursions as field training operations.

 

[Garandman]

You made my day, G.

Sounds like quotations from fixed-wing pilots, who all seem to hate choppers.//

Ironically they were usually bumper stickers on cars owned by the mechanics!

I was in a border Cavalry Squadron (3-7 Cav) and another platoon leader was flying the border trace in a Kiowa with a CWA. He asked, innocently, "What happens if you lose the engine?" At which point the Chief shut the engine down. They auto-gyro'd into a beet field.

The Chief began hurrying through the restart checklist. He pointed out a cloud of dust approaching from some distance away - a very PO'd German farmer on a tractor! They finally got the engine started, and the Chief rotated and flew directly over the tractor.

Why? "So he can't get my tail number." Their maps always had the nudist camps marked but they avoided them because the proprietors would use binoculars to report them.

During the '60's, while working for Fish & Game in AK, we were fortunate to have the services of the Army to provide access to remote locations. They would chopper us in, set up a base camp and provide any and all transportation needed. I still remember riding in the choppers called "the flying banana". Made my 'ol butt pucker up and trade places with my belly button. The Army justified these excursions as field training operations.

That's still the case, Army NG Aviation Regiment in Alaska is very active: fire fighting, rescue (including Denali), etc. They fly Blackhawks, Chinooks, Sherpas [fixed wing], and who knows what else. Along with the Coast Guard they fly in extreme conditions there.

My old First Sergeant was sent on a river survey mission in Alaska. They were sent up river in an Armored Personnel Carrier. They surveyed the river bottom and looked for fords and potential landing sites. They were resupplied occasionally by air, but most ate fish they caught. Not sure which river, there are a number of large and small rivers near Fort Wainright.

 

[Redneck in training]

I had a friend who took me up in a two seater glider once. It was very, very cool, but I was surprised at how noisy it was, simply because of the wind.

I have also been up in a small plane, most recently when we circumnavigated the island of Kauai in Hawaii. The scenery was spectacular, but I was so "seasick" by the end of the ride that I had to lay down for an hour! Will never do that again, but I would love to ride in a helicopter. Is it really less obnoxious in terms of the effects on your stomach? That is what I've heard, namely that a helo shakes you up but you don't get those long ups and downs which are what really upsets the vestibular system and makes you seasick in a small plane. Any comments?

It all depends on weather. I have flown a heli from a oil rig somewhere in Timor Sea back to Darwin when the weather was already bad due to cyclone approaching. Three hours of being pressed in the seat one second and lifted above the seat the next.

Ex husband of my daughter was a military heli pilot. He said you can train a monkey to fly modern (computerized) heli.

 

[Redneck in training]

To fly an airplane was my dream since my childhood. So we bought a property that could accommodate 2000+ ft run way and built a house with 36ft wide single garage door. I wanted to build Zenith or Sonex kit plane. It was 12 years ago. Never got to it due to work. Changed my plans. I think I will build a kit car.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

The hardest helicopter to fly today is the Osprey. Osprey pilots will tell you that during transition, there's a moment in time where there's not enough rotor lift to be a helicopter anymore and not enough forward motion/wing surface to be an airplane. They say if your a pilot you can kind of feel that moment and its mildly disconcerting, and there's nothing you can do about it except hope the computer gets it right.

That whole aircraft scares the living daylights out of me because it cannot auto-rotate in a power loss. Instead the Osprey is a giant lawn dart.

 

[ray66v]

I have experience in both fixed wing, and rotorcraft.

There is no question learning to fly an airplane is easier.

I could give just you the controls of an airplane with no instructions, while in flight on a clear day, and you could continue along without much difficulty, because most airplanes have something called inherent stability.

Doing the same in a helicopter, would result in a loss of control, within a short period of time. This is because helicopters have almost no stability.

Learning to hover a helicopter, is like learning to stand on the ball, on top of a flag pole, on one foot, in the wind. It is a balancing act. It requires you to sense and correct, without even taking the time, to realize it happened. It takes time to develop those skills, but most people can learn to do it.

Find out if you have a flight school near you, that offers helicopter instruction. They usually have something called a "discovery" ride, for a nominal fee, where you can see for yourself.

 

[houstonscott]

I have experience in both fixed wing, and rotorcraft. There is no question learning to fly an airplane is easier. I could give just you the controls of an airplane with no instructions, while in flight on a clear day, and you could continue along without much difficulty, because most airplanes have something called inherent stability. Doing the same in a helicopter, would result in a loss of control, within a short period of time. This is because helicopters have almost no stability. Learning to hover a helicopter, is like learning to stand on the ball, on top of a flag pole, on one foot, in the wind. It is a balancing act. It requires you to sense and correct, without even taking the time, to realize it happened. It takes time to develop those skills, but most people can learn to do it. Find out if you have a flight school near you, that offers helicopter instruction. They usually have something called a "discovery" ride, for a nominal fee, where you can see for yourself.

Now imagine doing that at tree top level at 140kts, at night with two displays, one in your right eye, those in front of you, while firing weapons, communicating with three different people, six different helicopters, and six UAV's and controlling their weapons and employing their weapons too. All the while doing flying stuff, airspeed, altitude, NR, torque, engine monitoring, not to mention avoiding enemy fire and detection. There is nothing close to an E model Apache. Only a few can do it, they are national assets. HS

 

[dfkrug]

Find out if you have a flight school near you, that offers helicopter instruction. They usually have something called
a "discovery" ride, for a nominal fee, where you can see for yourself.

Yeah, that's what I did. It was 25y ago in New Zealand, and only NZ$100 for 1/2 hour. That was about $75-80US,
IIRC.

A lot of fun, but I can say that having the auto-rotation demonstrated was not the best part. The pilot did not
really warn me when she announced it, then cut the power. Dropping that fast is supposed to be survivable;
I will take her word for it.

My ride in a Bell Jetranger was still the best e-ticket ride.

 

[ray66v]

Now imagine doing that at tree top level at 140kts, at night with two displays, one in your right eye, those in front of you, while firing weapons, communicating with three different people, six different helicopters, and six UAV's and controlling their weapons and employing their weapons too. All the while doing flying stuff, airspeed, altitude, NR, torque, engine monitoring, not to mention avoiding enemy fire and detection. There is nothing close to an E model Apache. Only a few can do it, they are national assets. HS

It all sounds like fun, until you get the the part where you are being shot at.

The guys I have talked to, who flew Huey's in Nam, say you kind of get used to it?

 

[ray66v]

Yeah, that's what I did. It was 25y ago in New Zealand, and only NZ$100 for 1/2 hour. That was about $75-80US,
IIRC.

A lot of fun, but I can say that having the auto-rotation demonstrated was not the best part. The pilot did not
really warn me when she announced it, then cut the power. Dropping that fast is supposed to be survivable;
I will take her word for it.

My ride in a Bell Jetranger was still the best e-ticket ride.

Dropping at that speed is not survivable, without a properly executed braking, and flare. That part is not always demonstrated, because it can be hard on the landing skids.

I will never forget when I experienced my first auto-rotation. I never expected it to drop so suddenly. I figured, it would happen gradually. I did not have my seat belt cinched up tight, and my tightly clinched butt, never touched the seat all the way down. :shocked:

 

[mjarrels]

I like that kid on the new hawii five O. He is a detective, Navy SEAL commander and can fly anything. Best story I ever heard was during the fall of Siagon, the south vietnam pilot who flew his family to a US ship, dropped them off and then hovered and took off his flight suit before ditching the aircraft at sea. How do you fly a helo with both hands and feet and remove a flight suit?

mark

 

[dickfoster]

You should have added "under those conditions" to your statement.

Although having never piloted a helicopter I have flown hundreds of hours in them. Love em. Have as deep of relationship with them as man can have with a machine. Always stop what I'm doing and search the sky until I spot one when I hear them fly by. Can identify the military models by sound long before sighting them. :flagday:

Well I sure do know what a Huey sounds like.

 

[dickfoster]

Helicopter flight is all about torque management. Over torque and its real possible to destroy a gear box and or engine. Not enough torque is called falling. Fine line between the two.

Joke: Anyone know what that rotor on the tail does? Well it keeps the pilot cool. Now your all thinking its for rotational stability or horizontal direction control. I would argue that if you want to see the pilot sweat, stop that blade.

I was always told that was what the propeller on an airplane was for. I was flying a Cessna 337 (huff and puff or suck and blow) once and we shut down the front engine. Seeing that front propeller not turning was very wierd and disconcerting. I felt much better when we had it turning again.

 

[dickfoster]

I love small airplanes and have been in and flown many as a kid. And, while I enjoy the concept of a helicopter, I don't enjoy riding in them knowing how they work and what has to happen each revolution of that blade, what holds it on, and what happens if it, the transmission or the engine malfunctions... you gonna D.I.E.

I once saw a pilot (we called him Hot Dog) starve a helicopter engine of air in winter, stall the turbine, and make an emergency autrotation landing from very low altitude. He hit so hard, it bent the struts. We joke about this stuff, but he soiled his pants. It wasn't funny. He thought he was gonna die. We thought he was gonna die, too. He was a much different pilot after that. No more Hot Dog.

You can sum it up this way, there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old, bold pilots.

 

[MossRoad]

You can sum it up this way, there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old, bold pilots.

Well, I've heard that a thousand times over my life and its just not true. I knew many old, bold pilots that I often wondered how the heck they were still alive after the stunts I heard about, and some I witnessed. And I know (knew) about 6 that weren't old or bold but are dead as dead can be from airplane crashes. Two died from bad decisions. Two died because of ground instruments that were incorrectly calibrated, they followed the beam right into a mountain. One died dipping a wing of a float plane into the water in Alaska. I guess that makes 5. Three were 50ish and the other two were in their 20's.

The old, bold ones ended up having their licenses pulled due to heart conditions from years of smoking, drinking and generally poor health habits. But they were crazy, fun, and full of life. :thumbsup:

 

[dickfoster]

Well, I've heard that a thousand times over my life and its just not true. I knew many old, bold pilots that I often wondered how the heck they were still alive after the stunts I heard about, and some I witnessed. And I know (knew) about 6 that weren't old or bold but are dead as dead can be from airplane crashes. Two died from bad decisions. Two died because of ground instruments that were incorrectly calibrated, they followed the beam right into a mountain. One died dipping a wing of a float plane into the water in Alaska. I guess that makes 5. Three were 50ish and the other two were in their 20's.

The old, bold ones ended up having their licenses pulled due to heart conditions from years of smoking, drinking and generally poor health habits. But they were crazy, fun, and full of life. :thumbsup:

Well maybe they are more being careful and calculating than they are bold. It just seems that they are taking more chances than they really are. I've seen some do some pretty crazy stuff at airshows and such but I know there is a lot more going on than it seems. Hours and hours of practice behind every minute of stunt flying. There is never much of a real excuse for trying to fly though a rock pile other than pilot error. Those instruments should be kept up to date and cross checked before you go trusting your life to them. You just never assume or take anything for granted in instrument flying. Not and live long. You'd be surprised how cheap some people are when it comes to stuff like this and how many are in it that really just can't afford it. Flying is a lot of stuff but cheap ain't one of them. It was fun for me when it was free and someone else paid the bills but when it quit being free, I quit flying.