Florescent Lighting Bans?

[MossRoad]

Everybody disparages lawyers.... until they need one.

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

Clients are almost always the slimiest people in the courtroom.

 

[JTKub]

GE and Sylvania make up the bulk of what I have.

I’m a fan of T8 and we were the first major build in the city all T8 and compact Florescent.

In 30 years only one single compact Florescent ballast went bad…

In 30 years had a few short lived ballasts the first year and then the sweet spot for 15 or so years and the to now 3-4 ballasts a month..

I’m guess my medical halogen surgical bulbs will soon disappear…

I’m looking at $140k to replace with LED in 6 operating rooms…

People wonder why medical costs so much?

We had 1000's of 4ft T12 and T8 fixtures at the plant I work at a lot of 8ft T12s as well. Most of this lighting is never turned off as the plant operates 24/7/365.

Loosing a T8 ballast was rare. I can think of maybe one or two in the 28yrs I've worked there. The T12 fixtures was another matter. Constant ballast issues.

We could get maybe 3-5 years out of 4ft T8 lamps in continuous operation. Longer in office environments. Shorter out in the plant.

Mostly everything is converted over to blinding LED now, including all the high pressure sodium high bay fixtures and roadway lights. I don't care for the glare from most of them. They give off an insane amount of "light" per watt, but it ain't pretty IMO.

The most amazing thing I've seen at our plant is some old mercury vapor lighting with holophane hoods/reflectors. There were installed in the late 1940s and still light up with ancient US made Westinghouse MV lamps in them.

 

[DarkBlack]

I’ve done multiple large upgrade lighting projects to LED, using the help of utility company reimbursement programs. Probably aren’t as many anymore, but I would still check. Combined with the energy savings, the payback is relatively short.

 

[DarkBlack]

I put those thousands of used T8’s on Craigslist and some other local media for free. I guy from a couple towns over was happy to take them. He used them for some school project

 

[rontaki]

With LED lighting, beware of low color rendition index (CRI) and/or too high of a color temperature. Often, in order to get a high lumen-per-watt number, the CRI is sacrificed and the color temperature in the blinding blue light territory. I prefer the warmer light output, but not too yellowish like some warm LEDs can be. The technology is still progressing.

 

[ning]

Fluorescent lighting is surprisingly efficient - typically 50-100 lumens per watt.
Of course, LEDs are more like 130 lumens per watt, so they're even more efficient.
One source gives 21.5W LED retrofit for T8 at 172 lumens per watt.
Incandescent lighting is more like 15 (5-20 range).

Personally I get eye strain and headaches in fluorescent-lit spaces that I haven't noticed elsewhere. I suspect my pupils don't react to the wavelengths so my eyes let in too much light and get overloaded, but it could also be the 60Hz flickering which is pretty obvious. I've replaced CFLs and T8s while they're still otherwise functional because of color temp and flicker; when possible I've used the "remove/bypass the balast" type replacements but I understand not doing that to replace an entire hospital's lighting...

 

[MossRoad]

Fluorescent lighting is surprisingly efficient - typically 50-100 lumens per watt.
Of course, LEDs are more like 130 lumens per watt, so they're even more efficient.
One source gives 21.5W LED retrofit for T8 at 172 lumens per watt.
Incandescent lighting is more like 15 (5-20 range).

Personally I get eye strain and headaches in fluorescent-lit spaces that I haven't noticed elsewhere. I suspect my pupils don't react to the wavelengths so my eyes let in too much light and get overloaded, but it could also be the 60Hz flickering which is pretty obvious. I've replaced CFLs and T8s while they're still otherwise functional because of color temp and flicker; when possible I've used the "remove/bypass the balast" type replacements but I understand not doing that to replace an entire hospital's lighting...

Just an FYI...

Fluorescent lights flicker at twice the HZ of the input, so in the U.S., that's about 120HZ.

Maybe this?

Why does artificial light hurt my eyes? Is it Irlen Syndrome? - Irlen

Understanding Irlen Syndrome: Can Fluorescent Lights Affect Us and Why Does Artificial Light Hurt Our Eyes? Welcome to the nuanced understanding of Irlen Syndrome, a perceptual processing disorder that affects the way the brain interprets visual information. At Irlen.com, we explore the complex...

irlen.com

 

[WinterDeere]

Clients are almost always the slimiest people in the courtroom.

On one side of the aisle, anyway. On the other is usually someone who's just been broadsided.

 

[ultrarunner]

Everybody disparages lawyers.... until they need one.

My then pregnant sister in law was T-boned when a UC Berkeley student ran a red light.

My brother spoke to several lawyers and the only ones willing to take the case were in the 40-42% of recovery.

My brother reached out to the insurance company for the red light runner and he was told to have his lawyer call as they do not speak with injured parties directly.

Brother prepared his own legal filing and filed suit in Superior Court… now the insurance company wanted to talk but offered pennies.

Brother said see you in court…

Morning of court judge directed a pre court settlement conference… same offer…

Brother said the figure I provided is the amount to settle.

As the clerk called the case… the lawyer for the insurance company said to the Judge we accept the amount plaintiff requests.

Just think how many would have folded or caved?

 

[ultrarunner]

I’ve done multiple large upgrade lighting projects to LED, using the help of utility company reimbursement programs. Probably aren’t as many anymore, but I would still check. Combined with the energy savings, the payback is relatively short.

PGE has offered programs and I was approved for parking lot lighting and then PGE filed bankruptcy… every year come new fires so it’s sketchy at best.

 

[ultrarunner]

With LED lighting, beware of low color rendition index (CRI) and/or too high of a color temperature. Often, in order to get a high lumen-per-watt number, the CRI is sacrificed and the color temperature in the blinding blue light territory. I prefer the warmer light output, but not too yellowish like some warm LEDs can be. The technology is still progressing.

The very good ones I had been getting were superseded so my recent option for the 3500k is 85 CRI and 2925 lm.

The LED replacement are 80 CRI and 10% less lm.

 

[ultrarunner]

Fluorescent lighting is surprisingly efficient - typically 50-100 lumens per watt.
Of course, LEDs are more like 130 lumens per watt, so they're even more efficient.
One source gives 21.5W LED retrofit for T8 at 172 lumens per watt.
Incandescent lighting is more like 15 (5-20 range).

Personally I get eye strain and headaches in fluorescent-lit spaces that I haven't noticed elsewhere. I suspect my pupils don't react to the wavelengths so my eyes let in too much light and get overloaded, but it could also be the 60Hz flickering which is pretty obvious. I've replaced CFLs and T8s while they're still otherwise functional because of color temp and flicker; when possible I've used the "remove/bypass the balast" type replacements but I understand not doing that to replace an entire hospital's lighting...

There is also a question of maintaining UL listing for altered fixtures…

 

[DarkBlack]

There is also a question of maintaining UL listing for altered fixtures…

I did tons of two tube 8’ T12 fixtures to 8’ twin T8 conversions, with a roughly 40% utility reimbursement program, then about 10 years later the same program to replace the T8’s with LED. 8’ LED’s are hard to find, and the utilities know it so offered a good 40% program on replacing replacement of the entire twin tube fixtures to LED fixtures made for using four common inexpensive 4’ LED “tubes”. I just had to meet certain efficiency standards. I had some extra labor dismantling all the old fixtures, separating the metal, magnetic ballasts, electronic ballasts, and wiring.
Lights were in a 24/7 facility, so the break even was fast, like just over a year

 

[DarkBlack]

Lighting retrofitting is fun especially when there’s rebate programs.
I remember doing a high bay 450 watt metal halide fixtures to 4 tube HO T8 fixtures with occupancy sensors. No slow warmup anymore on cold mornings, so that cut back on complaints about the lights switching on/off
Then they offered another program to convert those 4 tube T8 HO fixtures to equivalent lumen 6 “tube” high bay LED fixtures with sensors. By then, everyone had learned to embrace the new lighting technology.

Only drawbacks I could see we had with LED was obviously strong visual strobe effects on exposed turning machinery ( very pronounced with clear tube designs), and because LED’s front end power circuits only draw current on cycle peaks, our power factor was effected, and we paid a little more for our expensive separate demand chargebut we paid less in kwh. Residential customers don’t usually have to account for demand though, so not a concern for the majority

 

[ultrarunner]

I was in a warehouse that had a energy efficient grant and the high bay cast aluminum fixtures were cut with a bolt cutter to crash to the floor…

The old Chief was there and said for decades they work flawlessly… now junk smashed to smithereens…

 

[grsthegreat]

Fluorescent lighting is surprisingly efficient - typically 50-100 lumens per watt.
Of course, LEDs are more like 130 lumens per watt, so they're even more efficient.
One source gives 21.5W LED retrofit for T8 at 172 lumens per watt.
Incandescent lighting is more like 15 (5-20 range).

Personally I get eye strain and headaches in fluorescent-lit spaces that I haven't noticed elsewhere. I suspect my pupils don't react to the wavelengths so my eyes let in too much light and get overloaded, but it could also be the 60Hz flickering which is pretty obvious. I've replaced CFLs and T8s while they're still otherwise functional because of color temp and flicker; when possible I've used the "remove/bypass the balast" type replacements but I understand not doing that to replace an entire hospital's lighting...

I agree with everything EXCEPT i never leave a ballast. Never.

Youve just left an object that will fail and ruin the retrofit.

 

[grsthegreat]

There is also a question of maintaining UL listing for altered fixtures…

Im not sure how we get by altering the innerds of light fixtures the way we do. By cutting out the ballast and installing direct wired led tubes, we have definitely altered the ul rating. Bit as ling as we install the sticker alerting to the change, i have never had an issue with this with an inspector. Ive even had inspectors hire me to swap out their shop lighting

 

[grsthegreat]

PGE has offered programs and I was approved for parking lot lighting and then PGE filed bankruptcy… every year come new fires so it’s sketchy at best.

Nearly all the projects I have taken on in lighting conversion (commercial or industrial) was paid for by utility companies. They came thru every time and paid in full. Most times these plans covered all parts and labor, except for a few jobs where labor hours were higher due to exposure or vapor enclosed lighting. On those the company paid the difference. Even covered most scissor lift rental and disposal fees