Floating The Loader

Harv · Sep 29, 2000

This is almost as painful as the shopping was -- now that I have my tractor it's killing me that I only get to see it on weekends, and this weekend is my prescheduled family camping trip. I'm looking forward to the trip, but at the same time I'm pining away for my new baby.

Anyway, I'm filling the gap a little by reading and re-reading the tractor and loader manuals. I just noticed that there is a "float" position for the loader control that I didn't realize was there. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif The loader manual only gives it a passing mention and doesn't really explain what it is. [BTW - Is it just me or are Kubota manuals pretty lame?]

I'm not a completeidiot (regardless of what my previous posts might lead you to believe), so I think I get the idea -- it basically takes the loader "offline" from the hydraulics and just lets gravity hold it on the ground.

Can anyone elaborate, in beginner language, on exactly what "float" is and maybe give some examples of how/when to use it? I think some of the difficulty I had on my first day was directly attributable to my ignorance on this matter.

Anonymous Poster · Sep 29, 2000

First thing, unless you have a 15,000 lb machine, most things you'll do with your loader while driving backwards, including using the float. Using it going forward only works for about 1 second until the ground hits the bucket just right and raises the front end of the tractor up. End of float. In reall soft dirt you may be successful, I've always found it only useful going backwards. You have to experient for a few dozen hours with the bucket cutting edge at different angles to see what it does.

I'd also search the archives under books or "Ober" (author) he wrote a great book on TLB operations that every novice, those of us that think we know a little, and those that actually DO know a little should read. I'm in all 3 groups depending on what I'm doing!

You can learn playing with topsoil to see what the loader is supposed to be doing, unfortunately in typical ground you don't have the weight to do all the cool stuff. A rear rake with/without blade but with wheels can make you feel like a real pro. I keep the BX with it's cool rake w/blade and wheels hidden and just tell people I did that great grading job with the loader on the L35!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Anonymous Poster · Sep 29, 2000

I agree with Del that the only way to use the float is in reverse. I also agree that the bucket is generally too light to do a good job without doing it repeatedly, UNLESS, I put something of a load in the bucket. How much of a load is done by experientation. Several variables, stone or soil, moisture level, etc.
Just another $.02.

Thomas · Sep 29, 2000

Harv,
Take today off from work pack up and head north w/ your family./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I use my float to back drag dirt or level,also to remove snow.

Does your Kubota have a leveling rod on the FEL.

Cold up here this morning..20 degrees also windy. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Have a nice weekend and hope your culvert arrived.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

TomG · Sep 29, 2000

Floating the bucket allows it to follow the ground contour. Technically, it works by connecting the two lift cylinder lines together so oil can flow freely from one side of the cylinder to the other. As Del mentioned, the only thing holding the bucket on the ground is its weight. In most setups, The bucket is put into float by pushing lever to lower the bucket past a point of resistance into a notch, where it stays until pulled back.

I use the float a lot for removing snow before the gravel freezes. I curl the bucket up so the edge won't dig in and push as much snow as I can. A layer of snow is left, but it's better than digging up the gravel.

I do have some luck floating the bucket to pick up loose soil from a low pile. As Dell mentioned, it doesn't work too well, and it won't get the 'last few' buckets from a pile. I also had some luck using the float to backfill trenches that go through lawns. It's one thing to dig a trench through a lawn. It's quite another thing to remove a 4-foot strip of sod while trying to backfill the trench.

Even if the blade doesn't actually dig into the turf, the pressure of trying to push the dirt back into the trench often will tear the sod at the bottom of the pile. It ends up in the trench covered up, so you can't even get the stuff to paste it back in place. Makes for real unhappy wives.

What I found is the top of piles along trenches can be pushed into the trench normally. Then, some more can be pushed in without damaging the turf much by floating the bucket. A layer of soil remains that can be removed with hand tools.

I did hear of somebody solving this problem by placing sheets of plywood along side of trenches. Unlike me, he probably has a source of old construction site hoaring material.

As Thomas mentioned, bucket level indicators are handy. They are normally just rods that slide through a bracket. It's good to sit the bucket on the ground and level it. Then, wrap a piece of tape around the rod where it slides through the bracket. That way you've got an easy to see reference point for level ground. Of course, the bucket won't be level if the tractor is on a hill and you're trying to dig at the bottom.

gerard · Sep 29, 2000

Harv you kind of answered your own question and I concur with all the other info. Float's only really usefull backwards and is excellent for smoothing gravel, soil etc. You have pretty good control over how much you want to "dig in" while floating by the angle you put the bucket. The more vertical you place the bucket the more the weight is concentrated on the cutting edge and the more it will dig in or scrape whatever material your back dragging. It really comes in useful for final grading/smoothing.

TomG · Sep 29, 2000

Just thought I'd recall a contribution Dell made some months back. A floated bucket driven backwards will drag gravel around, smooth and fill pots that are narrower than the blade. Dell suggested that holding down-pressure on the bucket to the point where there is little steering and driving backwards also will compact the material. Brake steering can control the tractor.

I still do quite a bit of smoothing and compacting with the back of the bucket even though I've got a box scrapper. A scraper angled down so it rides on the back of its rear cutter also does a good job of compacting and smoothing.

Harv · Sep 29, 2000

Del -
True, I don't have a 15,000 lb tractor -- but then, I haven't added the wheel weights yet. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
There's a book for dummies like me? I'll look for it and get it!
I need a few dozen hours on the tractor? Can I tell my wife that's an order?
I considered getting a rear rake, but budget constraints led me to go with the basics 'til I had more experience. I guess the wish list only gets bigger, eh?

Tom -
Would I have better results if I scoop up one the neighbor's cows into the bucket for floating tasks? /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Thomas -
I know, I know... I'm supposed to be packing and loading up the car right now, but geez - we're looking at 2-1/2 days with no tractor and no TractorByNet!!!

My L2500 is one of those tractors that has a piece of strap iron welded to the top of the bucket with a bright green decal on it that is easily visible from the driver's seat. The decal is exactly parallel to the bottom of the bucket, so that is supposed to be the leveling indicator. Maybe I just need practice, but I still have trouble judging if the decal is level just by eyeballing it. The rod version, on which you can mark a level position, seems like a better idea. Then again, most of what I've done so far has been on very uneven ground, so "level" doesn't count for much.

Yeah, it got cold here yesterday -- 65 degrees. Today it's supposed to warm back up a little (80's) and then 90's for the weekend. /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

No culvert pipe yet -- some of it was back-ordered./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

TomG -
I didn't know any details about putting the loader controls into "float" position. These Kubota manuals leave a lot to be desired. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

Thanks! Those are exactly the kind of tips I was looking for. I have soooooooo much to learn. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

Gerard -
Thanks for even more tips.

Thanks to all of you -- this board is priceless in its wealth of knowledge and experience. If I had to depend solely on the Kubota manuals, I'd be "learning the hard way".

In fact, you guys were so helpful here, I have questions about the box scraper, too. Time for another thread...

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DaleW · Sep 29, 2000

If my memory serves me right, a number of years back Kubota got in some hot water with the green machine company when they put a rod on their FEL bucket and ran it through a ring to indicate when the bucket was level.
Seems that this was a patent infringement of some sort and caused all kinds of grief at the time. I have seen the setup on a kubota at a local tractor dealer but it was a old machine.
Must work well as it is still on the green machines today.
Dale

Bird · Sep 29, 2000

My 1995 B7100 with a B1630C loader had the rod through the ring for the level indicator. You can cut it off at the right spot, put tape on it like someone else suggested (I doubt it would last very long) or paint a ring around it at the right spot. Now my B2710 has the flat strap like Harv mentioned. Either device works pretty well and I've missed my guess at times with either one, too./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

RobertN · Sep 29, 2000

Brake steering? On a Kubota? Hehehahahoho! What Kubota?

This has been discussed numerous times over the last couple of years. At least on a Kubota with Hydrostat, there aint no way you'll use steering brakes. Tose brake pedals are about inpossible to use in conjunction with the HST pedal.

You guys with the GST and gear tranny's have one up on us folks with HST on that one.

I have tried a number of times on my B8200HST to run the "steering" brakes. It just aint made to do it.

A roll-over scraper, in the reverse position, is excellent for fo smoothing while pulling forward...

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

glennmac · Sep 29, 2000

RobertN, you can brake steer a 2910.

It has a cruise control handle that can vary the HST forward travel speed. Thus you can control travel speed with your right hand while you manipulate the split brakes with your right foot. None of the rest of the B series has this kind of cruise. I don't know what the Grand L's have.

Glenn

Anonymous Poster · Sep 29, 2000

Funny you mention that with the reversed rollover scraper, I use a rear box scraper with the cutting edge removed so I can actually make use of the rearward facing leveling blade on the BX

Anonymous Poster · Sep 29, 2000

That was one of the neatest things about these two Kubota's, somehow the valve on my Ford never had the feature that would allow it to STAY IN FLOAT! It never donned on me that this was possible. When I started using the floats in the Kubotas WOW IT STAYS!!! Why is this important you ask? Going backwards, which means looking backwards at least now and then/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif is just a little bit easier when your arm doesn't have to be reaching forward while you are trying to look backwards!

And ditto to the comments on putting weight in the bucket, depending on what you're doing that can really help the job, especially when you are doing the final "squishing!"
del

DVerbarg · Sep 29, 2000

Now you got my interest going. I was wondering what the extra position was for on the loader controls, it sounds like it is float. Have to try it tomorrow.

This board is a great place to pickup all sorts of good info...

DaveV

Anonymous Poster · Sep 30, 2000

Hi Del, could you give us more info on the author "Ober" that wrote the book you mentioned on 9/29??
Looked in a number of places with no luck for this author.

thanks again,
george

glennmac · Sep 30, 2000

George, see www.equiptrain.com/tlbbook.htm

Anonymous Poster · Sep 30, 2000

And if looking for a used book try "abe.com" or bookfinder.com abe stands for Advanced Book Exchange, it is a search engine that searches other book list services. A huge chunk of the used book stores put their lists, or are starting to put their lists of books into these search engines. I've bought quite a few books this way.

Gary J Ober
Operating Techniques for the Tractor Loader Backhoe
Ober Publishing
Northridge California 91324
9514 Reseda Blvd #478

this address is from 1983

I'm always amazed that more dealers don't have these ready for purchase.

MChalkley · Sep 30, 2000

RobertN - In addition to Glenmac's comments, you can also brake-steer when going backwards (which is what we're mainly talking about in this thread), by using the toe of your left foot to depress the HST pedal, and your right foot to brake.

MarkC