First tractor - wet ground... ?

[Milo]

Do you have HST or gear?

HST. If I'm not mistaken on the gear when you push in the clutch change gear or just stop it stops the PTO. My old B7500 HST did that when switching between low and high range which was about the only thing I didn't like about it. L2501 HST you don't need to clutch to change ranges so not a problem.

 

[mred2]

Pushing the clutch in an stopping the PTO has to do with if you have a live PTO. A lot of the older tractors used a two stage clutch. Halfway down stopped the trans. All the way stopped the PTO. A lot of the new ones, you just push a switch on the dash. As far as HST vs Gear vs Shutter, just a matter of choice by the operator, as to what it is being used for most of the time. I stay like my shutter, but grew up on gear tractor. And more of my work is mower, box blade, pasture work. HST might be nice for moving hay, but most of my hay loading is once a year. 30% loader work, 70% pulling.

 

[Cruiserdog]

HST. If I'm not mistaken on the gear when you push in the clutch change gear or just stop it stops the PTO. My old B7500 HST did that when switching between low and high range which was about the only thing I didn't like about it. L2501 HST you don't need to clutch to change ranges so not a problem.

Live PTO is a huge thing for me. Also like that mine has a 2speed PTO (540 and 540E, also has a PTO neutral, which is great for hooking up an implement)

 

[Cranblue]

Bigger is not always better an L2501 will lift less and weighs less than Mx 4800 obviously with wet ground putting more weight out especially on FEL means more ground compaction ruts and sinking etc.Your situation is a little complex with wet ground most of the time.I feel no matter what size tractor you go with you need to know it痴 limitations take your time and work can get done.You may want to hire or if you got experience rent a machine to get started and maybe get yourself some paths set up to run a tractor on I know loggers will lay small trees down to run on in wet ground.There are mats used with excavators in wet ares to keep them from sinking may be an option to get you started to eventually get your tractor in there ?? Good luck on tractor and ground

 

[jeff9366]

The wheels and tires on a 3,700 pound MX are much larger than the wheels and tires on a 2,700 pound L2501. I doubt if ground loading with an MX exceeds the ground loading with an L2501. If optional bulbous radial tires tires are ordered for the MX ground loading may be less with an MX.

Based on FEL lift capacity the L2501 will require twice as many trips into the wet area; each trip mushing the damp ground further.

If logs are towed out, each tractor should be able to pull about 75% of operating weight.

 

[Cranblue]

Assuming is not factual your stating a full size back could roll in there it has bigger tires than an Mx and weighs more !!! When you load FEL machines ground compaction wants to go down with gravity this is a fact !!!

 

[Cranblue]

You are a rare breed sir stating that bigger is not always better !!! I was told on this topic that Mx series probably has less ground compaction than L2501 because it has bigger tires well **** a full size back hoe must never get stuck I spent years on full size back hoes and front end loaders they all go down especially with FEL loaded up !!! I agree with you sir some just think bigger is better it has its place but mud maybe not ???

 

[chim]

Assuming is not factual your stating a full size back could roll in there it has bigger tires than an Mx and weighs more !!! When you load FEL machines ground compaction wants to go down with gravity this is a fact !!!

You are a rare breed sir stating that bigger is not always better !!! I was told on this topic that Mx series probably has less ground compaction than L2501 because it has bigger tires ������ well **** a full size back hoe must never get stuck �� I spent years on full size back hoes and front end loaders they all go down especially with FEL loaded up !!! I agree with you sir some just think bigger is better it has its place but mud maybe not ???

Makes sense to me. Been there. We have a creek that floods at times. I can get on that ground just as soon after the event with my L4240 as I could with the B7500. Both wear R4's and both of them could get on the ground sooner than my Ford 1210 with R1's.

 

[deezler]

Since not everyone realizes this, I'll just point out: Ground pressure is basically exactly equal to the air pressure you put in your tires. So if you have a little tractor with 15 psi in the tires, or a big ***** tractor with 15 psi in the tires.... they both put 15 psi onto the ground. Contact patch area of the tires expands to carry the weight of the machine proportional to inflation pressure. Since most manufacturers supply tires sized adequately to carry their machines, the mud-bogging potential of a tractor doesn't really depend on it's size.

Caveats include: Do bigger tractors require more tire pressure for safe performance (fronts, especially)? And obviously the tire type and flexibility play a big role - R1s with rigid bars concentrate the load.

 

[LouNY]

Since not everyone realizes this, I'll just point out: Ground pressure is basically exactly equal to the air pressure you put in your tires. So if you have a little tractor with 15 psi in the tires, or a big ***** tractor with 15 psi in the tires.... they both put 15 psi onto the ground. Contact patch area of the tires expands to carry the weight of the machine proportional to inflation pressure. Since most manufacturers supply tires sized adequately to carry their machines, the mud-bogging potential of a tractor doesn't really depend on it's size.

Caveats include: Do bigger tractors require more tire pressure for safe performance (fronts, especially)? And obviously the tire type and flexibility play a big role - R1s with rigid bars concentrate the load.

I'll have to disagree with you on this, at first quick glance it almost seems reasonable.
I have two tractors with 18.4-30 bias ply tires,
one has no added iron for weight and is on a light tractor (IH574), it will traverse wet ground with very little impact.
Also when I increase the rear axle loading considerably (a ton plus the weight of the forklift) it will almost lift the front tires the contact patch does not change that much.
The other tractor is considerable heavier, plus it has 1200# of iron on the wheels.
They are both on R1 tires of the same size and air pressure.
The ground loading rutting and compaction are completely different.

 

[chim]

Since not everyone realizes this, I'll just point out: Ground pressure is basically exactly equal to the air pressure you put in your tires. So if you have a little tractor with 15 psi in the tires, or a big ***** tractor with 15 psi in the tires.... they both put 15 psi onto the ground..................

Hmmm (scratching head) So if I put 30PSI instead of 15PSI in my tires, it will somehow make my tractor push down on the lawn twice as much? Can't grasp that.

 

[Cranblue]

The more weight on a FEL on bad ground the more gravity can suck it down regardless of tire pressure !!! Weather it痴 a small 25 hp tractor or a 70 hp tractor, full size back hoe or Front end loader. Take all these machine hep there front buckets up with heavy dirt then precede to go threw wet muddy snotty ground this is where compaction is at its greatest Full Buckets on FEL !!! Now running just machine around operator can get away with a little more as compaction is reduced by weight not on FEL it痴 common sense if you致e worked in bad ground conditions.Gravity will even pull track machines down if there痴 no good bottom where your working one other fact typically the bigger the machine harder to get out of a stuck situation.In another direction people who run vehicles on beaches where aloud will typically lower there Tire pressure to give them flatter bottoms to not sink in as much this is on coarse sand that by water is typically packed fairly hard.

 

[deezler]

Hmmm (scratching head) So if I put 30PSI instead of 15PSI in my tires, it will somehow make my tractor push down on the lawn twice as much? Can't grasp that.

Yes, the contact patch of the tire will roughly shrink in half, and thus the specific pressure will just about double, to carry the same total weight of the tractor. This logic is sound for smooth tires but I think R1's with inflexible lugs/bars may not respond as linearly.

So Lou, this is probably what happens in your case. If the tire can't flex much to expand the contact patch, it will certainly exert more ground pressure if you load up the tractor weight. It's pretty hard to visually determine tire contact patch area though. A tiny bit more sidewall squat can make a big difference in the true effective patch underneath.

I didn't mean to start any arguments, just thought this might help provide some context. But also! Does muddy dirt care about pressure, or total load? Maybe it's the total weight that matters more.

 

[mred2]

Two tractors with the same size tires and tire pressure, the one that weighs the most will go down faster! lower air pressure will only increase the surface area of the tire to the ground. R1 tires only have the cleats hitting the ground. R4 have heavier side walls. Tire pressure will work on cars and trucks, but not so much on tractor tires. In most mud where I live, you want to sink down to the hard pan and go thru it. If there is no hard pan under the mud, you just keep going. The better plan would be to try and stay on top of the mud, lower weight or increase the surface area of the tires, or build the road up. I will only drive my bigger equipment over the hard packed areas of the farm in wet season to stop tearing the grass up. A lot of ways to build the road up. You can lay down rock, trees, or maybe find a contractor getting rid of an old slab that he want to get rid of. I know of someone that just had over 250 feet of side walk busted up and taken to the dump. He had to pay to dump it.

 

[RugerSAfan]

Thank you for all the kind comments on this thread. I was about to pull the trigger on a Kubota L2501 and then contracted a pretty strong case of Covid in July and canceled purchase interest.

Fast forward to 2021, and energy had mostly returned as had interest in a tractor. Unfortunately, inventory in this area almost non-existent. Stopped at a dealer 70 miles away while on a motorcycle ride and had a good vibe. Mom and pop place, family owned, definitely not the new Kubota boutique look. Expressed interest in a tractor. Emailed pictures later (he gave me his personal cell #), called several times, and he was always apologetic but had a line of customers at counter.

As luck would have it, a new MX5400 came in on trade with another dealer. It's mine! Now he just needs to find R3's or R14's

 

[dirttoys]

Thank you for all the kind comments on this thread. I was about to pull the trigger on a Kubota L2501 and then contracted a pretty strong case of Covid in July and canceled purchase interest.

Fast forward to 2021, and energy had mostly returned as had interest in a tractor. Unfortunately, inventory in this area almost non-existent. Stopped at a dealer 70 miles away while on a motorcycle ride and had a good vibe. Mom and pop place, family owned, definitely not the new Kubota boutique look. Expressed interest in a tractor. Emailed pictures later (he gave me his personal cell #), called several times, and he was always apologetic but had a line of customers at counter.

As luck would have it, a new MX5400 came in on trade with another dealer. It's mine! Now he just needs to find R3's or R14's

Glad you got better, and happy you found a tractor. If it turns out to be less than ideal, maybe grab a good excavator for the first clean up, then sell it if you don't love it? I have tractor, skid and x, other than mowing, the others get used a ton more than the tractor.

Best,

ed

 

[Blue Mule]

I'm glad that Turf tires were brought up in this thread. Those are by far the best for soft conditions. Floatation is what you want! Good luck!