Finally..... A half decent welder..

/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #1  

westcliffe01

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
1,290
Location
SE MI
Tractor
Kubota M4500DT, B200 backhoe
I guess I was a bit of an unusual kid growing up. Amongst other things, I learnt how to weld when I was about 11. I spent my pocket money at the speciality welding store in town buying rods to try welding cast iron and things like that. I remember welding up a cracked hand plane body for the woodwork teacher in my final year in junior school and he was quite impressed..

Back then, I used an AC welder my dad had built by hand when he was an apprentice electrician. It had a bit of an unusual design, since the output was varied by inserting part of the core into a cutout in the transformer frame. So basically a variable resistor was introduced into the magnetic circuit as opposed to the electrical circuit. It was capable of astonishing current, but it made a really loud hum (too much clearance on the moving core) and it would spin the utility meter like there was no tomorrow.

Fast forward almost 30 years, 20 something domestic relocations and 2 major international relocations and I find myself worse equipped than what I was before I was a teenager. In the last few years I have been trying to correct that deficit and have meanwhile added a reasonable mill, a lathe project and a hydraulic surface grinder from the government "strategic reserve" to my collection. I tried an AC buzz box from one of the big box stores, but my impression is that you need smaller than 1/16" electrodes to make a bead with one of those and it will quit after 3" of that tiny weld.. Next attempt was when building my first trailer (which I needed to move) and I got a Lincoln Pro 100 (biggest one at Menards at the time). The little mig welder seems happy if all you will do is weld sheet metal all day, but when I started building a 7000lb gross weight tandem axle trailer this spring I realized that something better was required.

Finally after much procrastination and "priority juggling" (I did add a Bobcat B200 TLB to the collection in April) and with the summer apparently just arriving I took the plunge today and relieved someone of a good piece of "old iron"

360lb brute:
1072928063474_Dialarc_250_AC_DC.jpg


vs
00002869.jpg


I don't have a 230V supply in my garage or outside, so until alternative arrangements are made, I am powering it with my Robin Generator. That neccesitated a trip to Menards to find a suitable 4 pin plug. First attempt at hooking it up I only had 115V on the input, so some troubleshooting later I had it figured out. I also took the cover off to check the electrical connections inside and good thing I did. The "strain relief" had not been doing its job, and the cable had apparently been rotated through at least 2 full turns and a short was imminent. Fixed that problem and sleeved the cable with a piece of rubber hose to allow the strain relief clamp on the welder to grip properly.

So how does it weld ? Well, in my biased opinion.... beautifully ! Tomorrow will be the proof as I try to get the important structural welds on the trailer tongue completed and get the frame primed and painted. My wife just got a new Tdi and the trailer has to find its rightful resting place - OUTSIDE !
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #2  
Those Dialarcs are a nice welder. Industrial grade. i learned on a similar on in school. And used larger ones with the added wire feeder at work. It should serve you well!

Funny, according to some on here you should have been able to weld up your trailer with that 110v mig :rolleyes: Looks like you now know better :D
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #3  
ok your wife got a tdi what the heck is that? congrats on the welder but like the previous poster said if you want a good strong trailer, you want the welds burnt in good. have fun zman
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #4  
ok your wife got a tdi what the heck is that?

I think he means a new Vee-Dub Diesel.

My first exposure to welding was with an AC buzz box, and lousy rods.
I never knew the problem was the rods, until I got my first Lincoln tombstone
welder (A/C). I did my whole CADDigger project with that. If I had only
known about DC.....

I still use a buzz box for anything thicker than 3/8, but it is a very nice
Miller Thumderbolt AC-DC.
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #5  
Similar situation for me also. I have spent the last 10 years using a Sears 110v 100 amp AC buzz box and 3/32 rods. In June I finally bought a new Miller Wildcat 200 amp DC welder/ AC generator. A wonderful welding experience!:D Two weeks ago I added a Miller 375 Xtreme plasma cutter to the welder. I am now an avid Miller fan!:D
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #6  
<snip> My wife just got a new Tdi and the trailer has to find its rightful resting place - OUTSIDE !
Ah,
TDI

I'm getting 37.5Mpg over the life an last trip about 45mpg :)
And it's fast and quiet.
 

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/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #7  
Ah,
TDI

I'm getting 37.5Mpg over the life an last trip about 45mpg :)
And it's fast and quiet.
I am getting 19.7 mpg with my dodge diesel 6.7. It is like sitting in your living room!
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #8  
Hi Westcliffe

Congrats on the new welder. Question - what is the power output of the Robin generator you used initially to drive it? As mentioned in a previous post (trying to build a DC welder) my experience with a single phase AC stick welder is like yours - OK for minimal sheet work but not for anything substantial. I do not think it is a skill issue because when in Sydney on the grid, I use a massive old industrial welder at a mate's factory with no problem at all, even on the heaviest steel sections.

My issue is that I'm off grid and not wealthy enough to pay for a decent diesel generator or diesel powered welder so the options are try to convert the AC welder to DC or live with the problem until I get some money to upgrade the gear

Cheers

Alan
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #9  
I don't have a 230V supply in my garage or outside, so until alternative arrangements are made, I am powering it with my Robin Generator. - OUTSIDE !

Great story. And a good way to appreciate the excellent equipment available to us.

Years ago I powered my stick welder with my Craftsman 5KW generator. After the generator wouldn't work I checked the manual for troubleshooting ideas and read that it is recommended to NOT use the generator to power a welder. I don't remember the reason but a new inverter cost about 10% of a new generator. The little I recall was that it wasn't a power available problem but had to do with the way the welder draws current from the generators inverter. It may not be a problem with your Robin.

Clem
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #10  
Congrats on your fine welding machine. I found one similar to your recently that a welding shop had for years but didnt use it much. Picked it up for $350 with 100 feet of 2/0 lead. Mine is a 350 amp CC/CV AC/DC machine so I could use it to power a wire feeder if I wanted. I prefer stick to the wire guns though or a TIG application for fine detail.
I did have fair luck many years ago building a couple of trailers with a Lincoln tombstone 225 AC welder and 6011 and 7018 rods. The machine would handle them OK but the 7018 were tricky to use as you have to hold a short arc with them and the AC crackerboxes only like long arc rods like 6011. This was before they made the 7018 in AC (1968) Anyway I made 2 ea 40 foot x 8"wide x 7feet high cotton trailers and all I bought pre-made was the 6" 10K axle stubs. About 10 years ago, I saw them still in use at a cotton gin in Northeast Lousiana. I put 20,000 pounds of cotton on them many times and they pulled like a dream, much better than the "store bought" ones
Now that I have my "good welder" I have to find something to build with it.
First thing to tackle is a set of pallet forks as soon as I get my home leave from this Nigerian project iin 2 more days.
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder..
  • Thread Starter
#11  
My robin generator is rated at 5.8kw and has what I believe is a 13hp engine. As far as I know, mine has no inverter and is a brushed style alternator (brushes are for the field if I remember correctly).

I would be guessing that I was running 160 amps yesterday (DC) I didn't measure the arc voltage, since it will drop quite a bit from open circuit voltage, but basically the generator is good for 20 amps @ 240V through the connector I am using. This works out to 4.8kW (they underrated the connector, who knows why). So at 160 amps the power would be good for an arc voltage of 30V and I believe it is in fact lower.

The generator is clearly loaded but maintains the output speed just fine, so I think I can crank it up some more if needed. I was welding structural channel to 1/8" wall rectangular tube (trailer tongue to frame joint). I have always used the generator for welding, thanks to a builder / owner who ran pathetic wiring to the garage (can barely handle 15 amps 115V) and the generator has had no problem so far.

Great story. And a good way to appreciate the excellent equipment available to us.

Years ago I powered my stick welder with my Craftsman 5KW generator. After the generator wouldn't work I checked the manual for troubleshooting ideas and read that it is recommended to NOT use the generator to power a welder. I don't remember the reason but a new inverter cost about 10% of a new generator. The little I recall was that it wasn't a power available problem but had to do with the way the welder draws current from the generators inverter. It may not be a problem with your Robin.

Clem
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #12  
I have also read many threads on the forums about people having trouble running welders on generators. That is why I ultimately "bit the bullet" and bought a gas powered welder that was also a generator. (The Miller Wildcat is a 200 amp welder and 6,500 watt generator)
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder..
  • Thread Starter
#13  
The difference in cost for a "proper" welder generator is so scary I won't even go there. I too will be moving to an off grid location, so a decent diesel generator is in my future.

Considering that 13hp CAT / Yanmar water cooled diesel engines are available NEW for $700 and 1.4l turbodiesels are available from Japan (used) for about $1200, I might take the trouble to rewind the windings on a 4 pole generator to make myself a purpose built diesel welding machine. But until then, my $600 Robin powered generator is holding up fine. It is a bit louder than I like, but so far I have not taken the trouble to work on it. Since it is constant speed, it should be possible to build a tuned muffler for it to take the noise level down quite a bit. I could even throw in a catalyst to clean up the emissions some. So far I have not been motivated, since I figure I will sell it once I get the diesel unit set up.

The diesel is going to be set up for waste heat recovery (coolant and exhaust) to make the most effectiveness of the fuel that gets burnt. Fortunately in Colorado at 7500 ft air conditioning is not a requirement, but one always needs heat for heating and showering etc.
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #14  
We're all envious of your Bobcat!!! Nice purchase for sure.
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #15  
We're all envious of your Bobcat!!! Nice purchase for sure.

I didn't mean to offend anyone.:(

The "better" name brand generators run $800-$2,000 for 6k-10k watt units.

My Miller Wildcat 200 amp/6.5k watt was $2,600 from IOC.

You can also get the Hobart Champion (rebadged Miller 225) 230 amp/ 10k watt for $2,200 remanufactured or $2,800 new.

I purchased the Wildcat instead because it is 10" shorter in height and will let my 5th RV turn over the machine sitting in my short bed truck without touching. The 6.5k easily powers my 5th wheel (30 amp service).
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #16  
You may also try temporarily powering your welder from a dryer outlet (230V, 30A)--unless you're really pushing major amps.

I've read of many people successfully using a dryer outlet for their "tombstones" but on the other hand, you've got a serious transformer there!!!
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder..
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Dryer Outlet is upstairs in the hallway, "progress" some would call it. Finished basement has drywall on the ceiling and walls. No inspection covers to adjust the HVAC dampers etc. More "progress", just watch HGTV / DIY network when they discuss finishing basements.

Fact is, consumers are no longer expected to "do" anything in their garage besides park the car and the garden tractor. So, the situation is that to run some 220V wiring, I need to open drywall at the main distribution board (from panel to ceiling) then open ceiling drywall an the junction of wall & ceiling to get the wires "around the corner" Then again in the ceiling in a location that allows the wires to cross s few joists until I reach a space that has an unimpeded "run" to get down the length of the house. The only reason why I know of what is in there above the ceiling drywall was the "flood" that we had between closing and taking posession. (little issue of the previous owner not noticing that the washer faucet was not shut off properly, dumping the hoses on the hallway floor and walking out the door until we got the keys 3 days later). Nice...

Unfortunately, the least of home buyers are actually involved in the home building process. In my neighborhood, probably 50% or more of homes were speculatively built by contractors as "investment properties". I couldn't get a construction loan since I had to rebuild my credit record from scratch after relocating from Germany. Needless to say, next time around only I will be to blame for any oversights....
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder..
  • Thread Starter
#18  
What we need is a dodge ram 1500 with a 3.0L turbodiesel. Sticker price $20-25k. 30mpg would be possible with some re-styling of the front end and without the 4x4 hardware and height. Dodge would never be able to keep up with the demand. I will be first in line. Now it looks like it will be Mahindra introducing a light diesel pickup in the US, what a circus. I have actually been to the Mahindra factory in Nasik India where they were building their "Jeep" and the idea that they will be the first here blows the mind.

There were a lot of 2WD sissified Tacomas bought by people who thought economy was important back when it wasn't fashionable. But once Toyota started trying to compete size for size with the big 3 trucks, the Tundra became as large as anything else with dismal sales ever since and the Tacoma is now as big as any F150 out there... I think the Ram with the cummins engine is a fine truck, but not everyone needs 300hp and such high GVW's and they are not exactly cheap either (we bought several for emissions system development and they ranged from the high $40s to nearly $60k).


I am getting 19.7 mpg with my dodge diesel 6.7. It is like sitting in your living room!
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #19  
What we need is a dodge ram 1500 with a 3.0L turbodiesel. Sticker price $20-25k. 30mpg would be possible with some re-styling of the front end and without the 4x4 hardware and height. Dodge would never be able to keep up with the demand. I will be first in line. Now it looks like it will be Mahindra introducing a light diesel pickup in the US, what a circus. I have actually been to the Mahindra factory in Nasik India where they were building their "Jeep" and the idea that they will be the first here blows the mind.

There were a lot of 2WD sissified Tacomas bought by people who thought economy was important back when it wasn't fashionable. But once Toyota started trying to compete size for size with the big 3 trucks, the Tundra became as large as anything else with dismal sales ever since and the Tacoma is now as big as any F150 out there... I think the Ram with the cummins engine is a fine truck, but not everyone needs 300hp and such high GVW's and they are not exactly cheap either (we bought several for emissions system development and they ranged from the high $40s to nearly $60k).
How did you manage to make this cross threaded post??:confused:
larry
 
/ Finally..... A half decent welder.. #20  
My previous "cookie cutter" house was the same way. The garage was 18'x18' on the outside. Only two 110 outlets. What a joke...:(

Dryer Outlet is upstairs in the hallway, "progress" some would call it. Finished basement has drywall on the ceiling and walls. No inspection covers to adjust the HVAC dampers etc. More "progress", just watch HGTV / DIY network when they discuss finishing basements.

Fact is, consumers are no longer expected to "do" anything in their garage besides park the car and the garden tractor. So, the situation is that to run some 220V wiring, I need to open drywall at the main distribution board (from panel to ceiling) then open ceiling drywall an the junction of wall & ceiling to get the wires "around the corner" Then again in the ceiling in a location that allows the wires to cross s few joists until I reach a space that has an unimpeded "run" to get down the length of the house. The only reason why I know of what is in there above the ceiling drywall was the "flood" that we had between closing and taking posession. (little issue of the previous owner not noticing that the washer faucet was not shut off properly, dumping the hoses on the hallway floor and walking out the door until we got the keys 3 days later). Nice...

Unfortunately, the least of home buyers are actually involved in the home building process. In my neighborhood, probably 50% or more of homes were speculatively built by contractors as "investment properties". I couldn't get a construction loan since I had to rebuild my credit record from scratch after relocating from Germany. Needless to say, next time around only I will be to blame for any oversights....
 

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