fill tires or not?

[vtsnowedin]

Check the liquid ballast section of your owner manual. Mine says don't use alcohol, which necessarily includes anti-freeze. I went with RimGuard.

//greg//

What type of anti-freeze are you thinking of that has any alcohol. Windshield washer fluid is the only one I know of. From reading this comparison here.
Antifreeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I concluded that Rim-Guard (beet juice) is by far the best way to fluid fill your tires in a cold climate. Well worth the $700 cost both in added safety and corrosion protection for your rims. Used antifreeze is just that "used" and its anti corrosion additives maybe all used up and you have the choice of toxic ethylene glycol or the more corrosive propylene glycol.

 

[greg_g]

Read that Wikipedia article again. Take particular note immediately underneath Primary Agents, where it says "Most antifreeze is made by mixing distilled water with some kind of alcohol."

But $700 for RimGuard? How big are your tires? It only cost $237.60 to fill all four tires on my 3720

//greg//

 

[lilranch2001]

Read that Wikipedia article again. Take particular note immediately underneath Primary Agents, where it says "Most antifreeze is made by mixing distilled water with some kind of alcohol."

But $700 for RimGuard? How big are your tires? It only cost $237.60 to fill all four tires on my 3720

//greg//

I forget what mine exactly cost for Rimguard, but it was only around $300 for my rears

 

[sparc]

Interesting. My dealer will not deal with Rim Guard at all. Apparently they had some issues with it and it's very expensive and they need different equipment. They will only use calcium chloride which is what is in my manual.

CaCL is fine once it is sealed in the tire. However, it is an issue if you get a puncture. It is much heavier than alcohol and windshield washer fluid ( I wonder how toxic that is..).

I chose nothing. The ride is better, the risk is zero. If I get a puncture nothing is going to ruin my tractor or my property. I spent the money for wheel weights and when I use the loader, I pick up a heavy counterweight and I am in the process of making one even heavier. This way, i am not dragging so much excess weight across the property and compacting the soil. Plus, a heavy weight hung out way behind the rear wheels is more effective than loading the wheels ( longer moment arm).

This is my philosophy as well. I prefer the counter weight on the 3 point to loading the tires because I can drop it and reduce the weight of the tractor when I don't need it. This does create on problem though, and that is with a weight box you can't mount a scraper blade or box blade or other implement. A BB has some heft to it so it can act as a counter weight, but its not as heavy as my concrete counterweight which is close to 800#.

 

[urbandeere2520]

To fill or not to fill depends on your mission. If mowing grass 90% of time => turf (R3) tires, weight bucket off and don't fill the tires. If using a backhoe and bucket to move dirt around 90% of the time => Ag (R1) tires and fill the tires.

 

[meburdick]

To fill or not to fill depends on your mission. If mowing grass 90% of time => turf (R3) tires, weight bucket off and don't fill the tires. If using a backhoe and bucket to move dirt around 90% of the time => Ag (R1) tires and fill the tires.

I disagree. Most of my non-winter use is for mowing. My tires are filled, I typically have the BB attached, and often leave the loader on as well (remove the forks). I find that my machine is incredibly stable, never slips, never slides, and never leaves a mark on my lawn. I've heard PLENTY of times of people mowing with a machine without filled rears and complaining of the marks left in the lawn because traction slips just a little bit with morning dew or similar.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I read through the whole 13 pages and had to join just so that I could add my two cents. I would never add any liquid to my tires for numerous reasons and they've all been mentioned so I won't repeat. Search for " three point hitch bar", buy it. Bend a few pieces of rebar (there are always extra rebar squares at a construction yard) and build a suitable plywood box around the three point hitch bar that you bought and the rebar. Go to a cement plant and get them to fill it with leftover cement from when the trucks come back after a job. An even easier way would be to put a piece of 4 inch sewer pipe through the cement (length to suit your 3ph) search for "Speeco Tractor Draw Bar" or equivalent for your category of 3ph and run it through the cemented in sewer pipe. Another option. Cast iron weights are cheap and easy to find by scrounging for odd weights at a tractor wrecker or a tractor dealers back yard. Another good place to check for weights is a scrap metal yard in an agricultural area. A bit of welding for a 3ph bracket, some paint and you are in business. Or buy a "Speeco Tractor Draw Bar" and put it through the bolted together cast iron weights for an even simpler option. Search for "3 Point Quick Hitch" (similar to iMatch only cheaper), buy it and you never have to wrestle with hooking up to the weights. I did all my searches on eBay just to keep it simple. Other sites would probably work too. If you need a better description of my ideas just ask. I have 600 lbs hanging behind my 4410 quick hitch and that is lots. It's a bit light when I'm lifting real heavy loads but with 1000 lbs I couldn't get my fel bucket to dig into hard ground. Food for thought: 600 lbs hanging low on the 3ph is a lower center of gravity than tires filled with fluid.

 

[meburdick]

PMSMECHANIC:

You've missed one very important point about filling tires... While they do add counterweight for the loader, they also add STABILITY to the machine overall. No matter how much weight you put on a drawbar, hitch, ballast box, or other rear implement, you won't remove the "bounce" from air-filled tires.

Another aspect that needs to be considered is that one is not always in a position to safely have their ballast on a 3PH be in a very low position (to lower CoG). Driving around with a BB near the ground is dangerous.

 

[SPYDERLK]

PMSMECHANIC:

You've missed one very important point about filling tires... While they do add counterweight for the loader, they also add STABILITY to the machine overall. No matter how much weight you put on a drawbar, hitch, ballast box, or other rear implement, you won't remove the "bounce" from air-filled tires.

Another aspect that needs to be considered is that one is not always in a position to safely have their ballast on a 3PH be in a very low position (to lower CoG). Driving around with a BB near the ground is dangerous.

I agree with both your points. The value of the counterweight [behind the axle] is proportional to distance, weight, and height. Real terrain circumstance applies somewhat complex limits to taking the full advantage. For the moment I use a small bushog chassis with solid concrete blocks on it and steel suspended below the deck. This gives ~1200# that can be adjusted in height ... down to pretty low where allowed - and then the tail wheel and top link articulation can provide a buffer against hard grounding. Im accumulating steel scraps to incorporate into a cylindrical 2pt counterweight that would roll if it touched. Im hoping to get as much as a ton of steel/concrete in the counterweight. A good short distance roller too if I grease the pins!
larry

 

[greg_g]

It's important to keep in mind that the primary benefit of weight over the axle (wheel/tire ballast) is traction. Counterweight is a secondary benefit. Conversely, the primary benefit of weight behind the axle (TPH ballast) is counterweight. Improved traction is a secondary benefit.

I have fluid ballast in my tires (full time obviously) for traction, but only mount a ballast box on the TPH when needed to counter heavy loads in the front bucket. Even though the RimGuard puts an additional 850# over the rear axle, I can still feel the tires lift when settling a 5' bucket full of dense grade. Mounting the 700# ballast box completely prevents that that otherwise unnecessary wear and tear

//greg//

 

[pmsmechanic]

Ok so I'll explain a bit where I'm coming from. I like flexibility in my tractor. I do a lot of custom work and if I can't find an implement that does what I want I've been known to build what I want. I rototill numerous gardens in spring and I want a tractor that is as light as possible. If the spring is wetter than normal I can see the wheel tracks in the rototilling. I'm fussy about that and I don't like it. If I need ballast for fel work then I use either my rototiller, my box blade or my weights. For cleaning corrals the weights are by far the most compact. I built a bucket that is all teeth and a back for the manure. It is very easy to push into the manure in wet conditions. If I need stability I can install the duals that I fabricated. I also don't like compacting my lawn when I mow the grass though the F-935 does most of that now. I also don't like dealing with the weight of fluid filled tires when they get punctured. I could go on. I've never had "bounce" issues with my tires. I understand what meburdick is saying, I've just never had it be an issue. For me it just boils down to personal preferences and what you can afford. There are pros and cons to either side of the argument.

 

[greg_g]

I've never had "bounce" issues with my tires.

You've not described anything heavy enough in your loader to cause the "bounce". Without the TPH ballast, I drive my liquid ballasted 3720 into a pile of dense grade and lift/curl to fill the bucket. It comes up with with a heaping load, spilling off all sides. Rather than dribble gravel all the way to where ever I'm doing to dump/spread the contents, I use the joystick to quickly drop the bucket about a foot, then just as quickly stop it. That shakes the excess right back onto the pile, and I'm not losing it elsewhere. This act of settling the bucket contents is enough to feel the back end of the tractor rise and fall in reaction (bounce). It's not so severe as to be dangerous to the operator, but it's mechanical wear and tear that could otherwise be avoided. The addition of a 700+ pound TPH ballast box for loader work of this magnitude is that avoidance. No more "bounce".

Gravel is not the only thing I use the ballast box for. I put it on for moving rip-rap, grappling/moving entire tree trunks, lifting/moving heavy farm implements, etc. It's simply common sense to put on the ballast box whenever what it is I lift/move with the FEL outweighs the ballast in the rear tires. Which leads to a suggestion to check in your own tractor operating manual. I strongly suspect you'll find an entire section dedicated to ballasting.

//greg//