Fuddyduddy1952
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Oh! Sorry grump...78% made in China, 1% USA.
Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation
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Grumpycat
Super Member
The current flowing through electrical devices in series must be the same for each device. So if one panel underperforms all panels in the series (called "string" in PV solar documents) must fall to the the same output.
A PV inverter must optimize current for maximum power conversion. The optimal current varies with solar illumination levels and temperature. Is something most do not expect. A string inverter must search for the optimal of the string as a whole. Can't account for one panel being slightly different due to manufacturing tolerances. Can't account for leaves on one panel reducing output, it has to reduce the output for the entire string as if every panel was equally blocked.
Is a very bad idea to replace one panel in a string, or to add panels of a different model or out of a different manufacturing batch. For the same reason it is a bad idea to replace cells in a battery. The panels are cells in a battery.
Enphase came to fame with microinverters, one per panel. The output is 60 Hz AC. Each panel gets optimized according to it's ability and solar illumination.
String inverters are simpler and less expensive than microinverters but at least one company, SolarEdge, has a solution that is coming to be known as "optimizers". Rather than a complex stand alone inverter at each panel SolarEdge uses a DC-DC inverter that optimizes the panel, then a simpler big inverter is used to feed the AC grid. All the advantages of microinverters at lower cost, but still more than a single string inverter.
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Grumpycat
Super Member
If you play the stock market then you need to learn about "diversification", and I don't mean DEI.Years ago I thought about solar. I have lots of South facing buildings, lots of roof area.
Suppose a solar system grand total is $25K.
The average stock market return for the last 20 years was 8.91% (higher if you look at 10 or 30 year average). That's $185.65/ month for that $25,000.
My highest electric bill ever was $145 in 43 years. I don't have any maintenance, we've never lost power more than a few days.
Should I go solar?
Being reliant on a single source of electrical power is not a good idea if you have options.
My new house will have 15-20kW of PV ground mounted panels from day one. And some as of yet unspecified kWh of battery storage. It will be less than 10% of the cost of the home.
Hay Dude
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Well of course they all don’t, but a lot do and we are buying every solar panel that can be made. Afterall, the world is going to end in 9 years, so we better, right????
Hay Dude
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As for myself, I didnt say it was taking farmland over. I said it was ugly when it takes farm land over.I wonder when folks talk about all the farm land solar is taking over if they've ever sought out the facts about how much farm land is actually used for solar.
Read the whole article. It's fascinating. Here's a tidbit.
The True Land Footprint of Solar Energy
In communities with active solar development, there is often debate about how utility-scale solar might affect existing land uses or natural resources.betterenergy.org
Table 1. Average percentage of county in cultivated agriculture versus solar by region
OzarkChris
Gold Member
Yes, including fossil fuels!
OzarkChris
Gold Member
OzarkChris
Gold Member
Must be building in a big city. As stated earlier, my 16.5KW system was ~$60k after tax rebates - over 30% of my 2400 ft2 house's current value (that was built in 2000). This does NOT include batteries which would have added close to $40K for 8kw worth of storage. Guess it really sucks to live there.
Grumpycat
Super Member
Nope. Rural. No building codes, only a state septic permit requirement.
As such I also don't have to pay 50% to a PV specialist to "design" my system.
two_bit_score
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Depends on how you look at it I guess.
OzarkChris
Gold Member
Not even a state permit for septic needed here if you do it yourself, but state inspector for solar a must to hook to grid. I bought all my items from unbound - used to be wholesale solar. Used a solar contractor to install - easier to get state inspector approval. My understanding in AR is that the state (and electric company) pulls out their microscope if you do a total DIY install. ~40k for US made panels, inverters and mounting items (ground mounted) and freight. ~$10k for Electrical Coop inspection, two-way meter and upgraded transformer. ~$5k for State permit, and inspector fee. ~$10k for installation and hookup to grid.
All total after ~$18k rebate Just a little over $60k
lman
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$60,000 would be about 25 years of my electric bills. My co-op doesn't pay much for excess electric going back to the grid. It's not viable here. I won't be around long enough to make it work.
There's almost 20,000 acres of farmland going into solar nearby, so my electric bill should go down with all that free energy(lol).
edgarrian
Platinum Member
I live in Montgomery County IN and we nearly had a wind farm get started here. Thanks god we won the fight. I did an FOIA on the commissioners who are all farmers and republicans in our mainly farming county. They were all talking out of both sides of their mouths. I even have an email from a wind rep saying property values would be negatively affected. One commissioner suggested to a wind rep that people worried about noise levels could simply sound proof there homes. This is how dump local politicians can be. I hired an appraisal company to do a county wide appraisal with wind turbines. It was not good. I did ask the local appraisal company in the county to do one but they turned me down. Not surprisingly.
Now our county is fighting solar. upwards of 15,000 acres to start. Once these projects get started they typically expand. Our county has a strong ordinance against solar and the solar companies have been denied the county abatements of 10 million. But with all the government they are getting Duke and the other companies are still maintaining a presence.
I see many of you will say its hard to tell a farmer what they can do with their property and i think for the most part we all agree. Here is why we have zoning (industrial, commercial, and residential) We have zoning so that prospective buyers can make informed decisions. For instance when we were looking for land. We found 10 acres in our price range but it was right next to a commercial lot. OF course the real estate agent said its been for sale for a long time and she didnt think it would ever be used. But We decided against it b/c one day it will be used. The problem with the farmer using land for this stuff is its sold as farming which it is not. Its basically a power plant. 15,000 acre power plant is huge. I would classify that as industrial.
All this is also sold to help the farmer. Well I grew up on a farm. My parents still live on the farm. And they aren't asking for handouts all the time. They aren't suffering. Farmers get breaks every where. My 8 acre wooded lot is worth 65k. While the farmers gourd behind me 32 acres worth 62k according to the county property tax site. So thats a huge tax break for farmers. Not to mention subsidies. When i deep dived into how much farmers received around here. there were 8 of the wind lease signers that had been given over a million in subsidies. Many with over 500k. Its also worth noting that if its a bad weather year. Farming insurance will be subsidized by the tax payer.
there are plenty of sites to put this crap and not in the middle of rural residents homes. Hell New Jersey made them put wind turbines off shore b.c they didnt want it to negative effect travel industry. Yet every where else were told it doesn't effect property values. Now New jersey has had a lot of dead whales washing up and there are now 10 majors wanting a moratorium on wind turbines.
I once was given an EV since i had my truck in the shop for a loaner car. It cost me 37 dollars to charge for 100 miles. My 16mpg truck does better than that. Tell me how this is so great.
Now our county is fighting solar. upwards of 15,000 acres to start. Once these projects get started they typically expand. Our county has a strong ordinance against solar and the solar companies have been denied the county abatements of 10 million. But with all the government they are getting Duke and the other companies are still maintaining a presence.
I see many of you will say its hard to tell a farmer what they can do with their property and i think for the most part we all agree. Here is why we have zoning (industrial, commercial, and residential) We have zoning so that prospective buyers can make informed decisions. For instance when we were looking for land. We found 10 acres in our price range but it was right next to a commercial lot. OF course the real estate agent said its been for sale for a long time and she didnt think it would ever be used. But We decided against it b/c one day it will be used. The problem with the farmer using land for this stuff is its sold as farming which it is not. Its basically a power plant. 15,000 acre power plant is huge. I would classify that as industrial.
All this is also sold to help the farmer. Well I grew up on a farm. My parents still live on the farm. And they aren't asking for handouts all the time. They aren't suffering. Farmers get breaks every where. My 8 acre wooded lot is worth 65k. While the farmers gourd behind me 32 acres worth 62k according to the county property tax site. So thats a huge tax break for farmers. Not to mention subsidies. When i deep dived into how much farmers received around here. there were 8 of the wind lease signers that had been given over a million in subsidies. Many with over 500k. Its also worth noting that if its a bad weather year. Farming insurance will be subsidized by the tax payer.
there are plenty of sites to put this crap and not in the middle of rural residents homes. Hell New Jersey made them put wind turbines off shore b.c they didnt want it to negative effect travel industry. Yet every where else were told it doesn't effect property values. Now New jersey has had a lot of dead whales washing up and there are now 10 majors wanting a moratorium on wind turbines.
I once was given an EV since i had my truck in the shop for a loaner car. It cost me 37 dollars to charge for 100 miles. My 16mpg truck does better than that. Tell me how this is so great.
Hay Dude
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Yet it will affect the tourism industry even with the wind turbines off shore. The businesses on the coast that rely on vacationers are fighting this.
I cannot prove this, but I am told the windfarms off shore will have a profound affect on tourism and the Jersey shore environment. But this new breed of environmentalists doesn’t care about whales, dolphins, birds being hacked to death in windmills or migratory species affected by fields of solar panels, they care about power and control.
bvanek
Platinum Member
This is a broad brush statement that indeed lacks insight and your so-called "research." You can make this claim like your friends Gretta, Al, and John but here is the problem. No supporting facts just rhetorical parroting and grandstanding. Most people don't research this and that goes for this community which you have spoken for on their behalf.
If you actually do the research you will find that the broad statement you make actually defies simple laws of physics in which the math itself says otherwise.
That’s approx $1.23/KWh, assume a public charger and somebody is making a killing!
That would have cost me about $4.50 at the casa.
sunandsand
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Farmer's break in Florida . . . property tax strategies in Florida . . .
I have a five acre parcel off in the woods near our home. Nothing on it except pine trees and palmettos. Requires zero services, no police, no fire, no water, no sewer, no power, nothing at all, access by a dirt easement so no city or county maintenance. Costs them zilch.
Property taxes were $2,200 a year (and there's nothing around it to raise those taxes, it isn't like it is five vacant acres in downtown San Francisco, DC or Manhattan).
Put bees on the property - signed a lease agreement with a beekeeper, he puts the hives out, collects the honey, does ALL the work and we get a couple of jars of the very best, pure and local honey every time we ask for them.
Taxes are now $53 a year. That's a 98% discount.
Requirements - land has to be zoned Ag, it has to be in a legitimate agricultural use (bees, cows, tree farm, there's a list) on January first of the year, you have to clear it with the county ag department.
Absolutely worth checking out to see if you have any qualifying property, Partial areas of a parcel can get this too, it doesn't have to be the entire parcel.
Additionally, if you have any wetlands, they are classified as "waste land" and valued for taxes at $500 an acre. Check that you are getting proper credit for any swampland.
There's also a significant reduction for parcels that are "no street, no address" but you have to call their attention to it.
Taxes are like crack cocaine for governments. There is NEVER enough, all the money in the world wouldn't be enough, they'd demand more.
Taxes on non-homesteaded property in FL can go up 10% a year, and usually does. Homesteaded has a 3% annual cap. I have a modest rental property on which the 2020 taxes were $3,300, for 2023, they are close to $4,000 - and of course that means the rent has to rise and the tenant complains - and the government wrings their hands in anguish about the lack of affordable housing, when THEY cause an increase in rents every year, like clockwork.
Old Chinese proverb . . . the government grew fat, the peasants grew lean.
("Don't get stung, get bees . . .?")
Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
I have a five acre parcel off in the woods near our home. Nothing on it except pine trees and palmettos. Requires zero services, no police, no fire, no water, no sewer, no power, nothing at all, access by a dirt easement so no city or county maintenance. Costs them zilch.
Property taxes were $2,200 a year (and there's nothing around it to raise those taxes, it isn't like it is five vacant acres in downtown San Francisco, DC or Manhattan).
Put bees on the property - signed a lease agreement with a beekeeper, he puts the hives out, collects the honey, does ALL the work and we get a couple of jars of the very best, pure and local honey every time we ask for them.
Taxes are now $53 a year. That's a 98% discount.
Requirements - land has to be zoned Ag, it has to be in a legitimate agricultural use (bees, cows, tree farm, there's a list) on January first of the year, you have to clear it with the county ag department.
Absolutely worth checking out to see if you have any qualifying property, Partial areas of a parcel can get this too, it doesn't have to be the entire parcel.
Additionally, if you have any wetlands, they are classified as "waste land" and valued for taxes at $500 an acre. Check that you are getting proper credit for any swampland.
There's also a significant reduction for parcels that are "no street, no address" but you have to call their attention to it.
Taxes are like crack cocaine for governments. There is NEVER enough, all the money in the world wouldn't be enough, they'd demand more.
Taxes on non-homesteaded property in FL can go up 10% a year, and usually does. Homesteaded has a 3% annual cap. I have a modest rental property on which the 2020 taxes were $3,300, for 2023, they are close to $4,000 - and of course that means the rent has to rise and the tenant complains - and the government wrings their hands in anguish about the lack of affordable housing, when THEY cause an increase in rents every year, like clockwork.
Old Chinese proverb . . . the government grew fat, the peasants grew lean.
("Don't get stung, get bees . . .?")
Best Regards,
Mike/Florida
They did the research themselves.
Here: Exxon scientists predicted global warming with ‘shocking skill and accuracy,’ Harvard researchers say
Here: Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago
Even here: ExxonMobil climate change denial - Wikipedia
Then there is all the IPCC work...much which I have read btw. Reports — IPCC
The post was about using land for a solar project and I was just pointing out it doesn't have a negative impact on property values in the long term. Better yet the ground could still be used for farming if done correctly.
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bvanek
Platinum Member
Ok but you threw in the false claim of how fossil fuels are killing the planet....I understand why people get duped because the mainstream, and in particular, the immensely powerful World Economic Forum flood our hearts and minds with agenda driven propaganda. (Follow the money). I bought in to the Al Gore thing 15 years ago but then things just simply didn't add up. I wanted the truth so I researched long and hard for it. Took me about ten years but the following is some basic science and math that convinced me to keep digging......noting honestly that no legitimate scientist will ever claim that this complicated climate science is settled.......Nice try IPCC
here is the science and the math. Basic if you will......
The main gases in the earths atmosphere are Nitrogen(78%) oxygen(21%) and Argon(0.93%) This leaves about 0.07% of the atmosphere for all other gases (mostly greenhouse gases) These are trace gases given the math. Of these trace gases about 95 % is water vapor with CO2 about 5 % (the non-toxic gas they use to hoax the public on climate change hysteria.) Of the 5% total atmospheric Co2 about 5 % is anthropogenic (human caused). So one can only conclude that man caused CO2 is a trace of a trace gas occupying about 0.003 % of the atmosphere......
And you should note that the planet heats and releases natural Co2 95% from natural sources and the rest is 5 % man caused. Pretty stark ratio and simply leaves anthropogenic Co2 as a footnote. So the "effect for the cause" that the IPCC ( Political governments), global elites, and their mouthpieces in the media (Wikipedia included) use their powerful platforms to promote this equation (in reverse) to sell their hoax. I suppose you could pick your side and reason that they are giving you the truth, but it has nothing to do do with science. In fact, the "basic science" alone would seem to be a strong rebuttal to their claim. Want the truth? don't look for it in the political theater, .......you have to dig in beyond the headlines. Maybe your just not interested? I get it.
The IPPC wants to extract wealth from the USA and we are no longer wealthy so it goes on the national debt.....It's not wise to blow up America's economy with climate change hysteria....my grand-kids can't afford it.
carbon is why we exist.....without it nothing lives.
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