Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[walhondingMF]

All three questions require knowing the States property laws. Which means all three would require a lawyer.

Great point citydude. The point I am trying to make, however, is that i think the current state's property laws may not be in the best interest of the "right" people here. I do understand that everyone may have differing opinions on these laws and how they may need to change.

 

[Roric]

I have stayed out of this conversation but feel the need to post this.

I have a 7.5kw solar array on a detached garage that has been producing for 41 months. To build this garage we purchased a 1 acre lot next door to our house. This lot had to be cleared of rubbish and was overgrown with mostly "garbage: trees that were mostly in poor health: intergrown, leaning and hollow and dying. I spent a summer clearing it. (I got my Kubota to get this lot in shape.) About 32 mature trees were removed to clear the lot during this operation.
Later the garage was built and after a time the solar array was completed.

In the 41 month the panels have been making watts it has produced 30 mega-watt-hours of electricity. (Even though this is the middle of the "tundra state" of Minnesota.)
Our electric bill is gone for the year. The 30 MW-Hour figure comes directly from the SolarEdge app that monitors this array.

Here is the important fact:

This production is equivalent to 350 trees planted. (from the app)

So 32 trees were removed and the production equals a small forest.
(We have since planted more trees than we removed.)

Your milage may vary but my math works out for me.

regards to all,

R

 

[walhondingMF]

I have stayed out of this conversation but feel the need to post this.

I have a 7.5kw solar array on a detached garage that has been producing for 41 months. To build this garage we purchased a 1 acre lot next door to our house. This lot had to be cleared of rubbish and was overgrown with mostly "garbage: trees that were mostly in poor health: intergrown, leaning and hollow and dying. I spent a summer clearing it. (I got my Kubota to get this lot in shape.) About 32 mature trees were removed to clear the lot during this operation.
Later the garage was built and after a time the solar array was completed.

In the 41 month the panels have been making watts it has produced 30 mega-watt-hours of electricity. (Even though this is the middle of the "tundra state" of Minnesota.)
Our electric bill is gone for the year. The 30 MW-Hour figure comes directly from the SolarEdge app that monitors this array.

Here is the important fact:

This production is equivalent to 350 trees planted. (from the app)

So 32 trees were removed and the production equals a small forest.
(We have since planted more trees than we removed.)

Your milage may vary but my math works out for me.

regards to all,

R

My first post in this thread was the idea that I believe the BEST (not necessarily the most realistic) is that if every home, factory, building, etc produced it's own energy, imagine how much different the landscape would be. Sure I understand it would be even more difficult in the large urban areas, but not impossible. Seems you are on that path roric. Some day, I hope to be able to afford the same.

Call me a "dreamer," but there are good solutions to our problems.

 

[JJT]

According to the Real Estate people most of the houses next to or surrounded by the solar farm will loose 20-50% of value.

Also we are on the TVA system with about the lowest energy rates in the country. When TVA was contacted they knew nothing about the solar farm. Who are they selling the power to?

RSKY

For every study that says surrounding home prices will decrease there is one that says home prices will increase. I'd personally pay a premium knowing I'd have good neighbors for the next 30 years. I've said it before, many times, good neighbors are priceless.

 

[lman]

I've got corn and bean fields for neighbors here. I think they look better than solar panels and they suck up carbon dioxide.

 

[TN8Man]

For the sake of progress on this topic, I would like to make a point...

I think we can all agree that cutting acres of trees down for any activity is a negative to some degree. I think we can all agree that removing grassland/ farmland for any activity to some degree is a negative. I think we can all agree that anyone losing property value (because its really the most valuable thing anyone has) because of what their neighbors do is a negative to a large degree.

We have been having a discussion about the wrong thing. The 3 things I listed above can and do happen for any and all forms of energy production (as I and many others have referenced already). We shouldn't be debating which form of energy production options we think are best. We should be discussing 1. how much right one land owner has over their neighbor when one's actions will impact the others 2. what or if the impacted property owner has a right to fair compensation for the loss in value 3. the power that energy corporations have with little responsibility (just ask West Virginia and Kentucky about how well off the coal industry has left them) and 4. what is truly the best way to power our lifestyles. I have my opinions on all of these and I am interested in the opinion of others.

Thanks for bearing with me on that.

You make good points but I look at the issue more as a national issue. A nations energy policies is a national security on several levels including economic, societal and military (abiility to defend our nation from adversaries). Its these key factors that are being impacted by the recent radical change to our energy policies. The economy is in a downturn and the Federal Reserve has even recently stated we are going to see a recession later this year. The recent energy policy changes has made our electrical grid unstable and unreliable where we now consider rolling blackouts as the norm when a decade or so ago this was extremely rare. Our Strategic Petroleum Reserve has been depleted due to energy policy changes and this impacts military readiness if and when we enter a hot war which is a highly probability now that the USA and NATO has entered the Ukraine Russia war. We also have the China - Taiwan cold war getting ready to go hot and we are committed to protect Taiwan.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

personally I wouldn't want panels close just for the aesthetics. Change is often uncomfortable.

but living in an ag. area I also wouldn't want
- a new hog lagoon across the road (smell)
- the dust and noise during seeding / harvest (dust)
- the smell during manure application process (smell)
- an industrial warehouse or storage facility (spoils view)
- a wind farm (spoils view)
- cell tower (spoils view)
- a cattle finishing lot (smell and view)
- a chicken barn (smell and view)
- feed manufacturing facilty (dust and smell)
- hay storage facility (smell and rats)
-etc...

I guess I am getting cranky as I age, I just don't like change

 

[Fixastuff]

I've got corn and bean fields for neighbors here. I think they look better than solar panels and they suck up carbon dioxide.

I like the fields around me. Except when they're spraying chemicals.

 

[orezok]

There has been a lot of negativity regarding solar, but how about a very positive story.

 

[MossRoad]

I've got corn and bean fields for neighbors here. I think they look better than solar panels and they suck up carbon dioxide.

But they don't keep carbon dioxide. They just hold it for the 3-4 months in the field, and release it again when the plants are chopped up and decompose, or the corn kernels are converted to some other thing.

And then you have the fuel to plant, maintain, harvest. The chemicals in the fertilizers and pesticides. Any added irrigation if applicable. And plenty of soil erosion from wind and rain anytime the field has no cover crop.

It's been proven and documented that solar installation is much easier on the land than farming it.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Internet research?

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

personally I wouldn't want panels close just for the aesthetics. Change is often uncomfortable.

but living in an ag. area I also wouldn't want
- a new hog lagoon across the road (smell)
- the dust and noise during seeding / harvest (dust)
- the smell during manure application process (smell)
- an industrial warehouse or storage facility (spoils view)
- a wind farm (spoils view)
- cell tower (spoils view)
- a cattle finishing lot (smell and view)
- a chicken barn (smell and view)
- feed manufacturing facilty (dust and smell)
- hay storage facility (smell and rats)
-etc...

I guess I am getting cranky as I age, I just don't like change

I wouldn't want most of those either, but I respect the personal property rights of my neighbors to have any of these if it helps them economically.
I'm a bit cranky about this stuff too, but there is really nothing I can really do about any of it if the local zoning allows for it.

 

[MossRoad]

Internet research?

Reality.

 

[Citydude]

Reality.

Reality that the total atmospheric content of co2 is 0.04%. ?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Reality.

I didn't mean to offend...but personal experience?
It would take lots of scientific research to figure out what's best for the environment:
1,000 acres of solar panels or 1,000 acres of trees?

 

[MossRoad]

I didn't mean to offend...but personal experience?
It would take lots of scientific research to figure out what's best for the environment:
1,000 acres of solar panels or 1,000 acres of trees?

I've read over the info regarding a couple large solar installations. And the comments from the farmers that are going to lease their land for these installations. It's going to give the land a rest, keep it in their family, provide good income, consume less water, fuel and chemicals, reduce erosion, and provide more taxes to the local economy than the crop activities did by a large factor. Those farmers are in agreement on this.

As has been said here so many times over so many years:

- Farmers are stewards of the land.
- Don't tell others what they can do on their own land.
- Private property.
- A man's home is his castle.
- HOAs suck because they take freedom away.
- If you don't want that next to you, you should have bought the land.
- You can always move if you don't like it.
- Right to farm.
- Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet...(well, Ford, because GM bailout).....

That is, until that farmer wants to do something that you don't agree with.

WHOOOA Nelly!

We can go back on TBN through the years and find multiple posts about people putting hog farms and manure piles next to neighbors just to spite them and lots of folks jumping in and laughing about it.

People building subdivisions next to farm land, and then complaining about the noises, smells, and dirt when the land is cultivated.

City folks trying to impose their ways on the country folks, etc.

The bottom line is these large solar farms are going in on farm land with the farmer-owner's blessings.

 

[MossRoad]

I didn't mean to offend...but personal experience?
It would take lots of scientific research to figure out what's best for the environment:
1,000 acres of solar panels or 1,000 acres of trees?

Oh, and no offense taken. It's a conversation. Just doesn't come across pleasantly in type sometimes.

 

[Fixastuff]

It would take lots of scientific research to figure out what's best for the environment:

Like EVs vs ICE? Lol.

 

[ericm979]

I didn't mean to offend...but personal experience?
It would take lots of scientific research to figure out what's best for the environment:
1,000 acres of solar panels or 1,000 acres of trees?

The problem is that trees are not forever. They die. Dead trees that are not turned into wood products (and a good part of those that are) rot. When trees rot, micro organisms turn wood and oxygen into energy and CO2. Wood products eventually rot and turn into CO2 as well. Trees only sequester carbon as long as they live. It's a cycle. Carbon in the air goes into trees and then it goes back to the air.

There's also a lot of carbon (dead trees) that's been buried by geologic processes. Nothing can get to it so it is therefore unavailable for the carbon cycle. That's why our CO2 level is not more like what's on Venus where it's 900 degrees and there are rivers of molten metal.

That is until we started removing the safely buried carbon and using it for energy. We're burning enough to change the climate in a way that's small on a geologic time scale but damaging for human civilization. The more of that stuff we leave in the ground, the less climate change we'll see.

The energy from the solar panels (hopefully) replaces some of the energy we'd get from stored carbon where the trees just store carbon temporarily. So the solar panels would be better for climate change than trees.

 

[Hay Dude]

You should read the book "The Millionaire Next Door" for more insight into "blue collar wealth" accumulation. I read the book "Rich Dad Poor Dad" when it first came out in 1997, It changed my life. I was working for a really good company making pretty good wages but I was spending as much or more than I was making. I sold everything I owed money on and got out of debt in a little over a year, started my first business in 1998. I used "Debt Snowball method" before Dave Ramsey and didn't have to go bankrupt to learn my lesson.

I read it when it came out decades ago and followed many of it’s suggestions
I am VERY comfortable. Don’t worry about me.
I like to look out for my brothers & sisters being buried in the BS high inflation, high energy cost last 2 years.