redneckford
Platinum Member
OK!! I will not post anything else about FarmTrac or Textron. Thanks for your time?
FarmTrac Troubles
- Thread starter gamble77
- Start date
- Views: 580290
Well Spoken Longtrman,I would like to point that the dealers formed a private forum to discuss issues without risking their legal status.some of us came back here so everyone concerned would know what was going on,we understand the customer's concerns and welcome all others who have supported us.this forum is the only way to get info to some.-----taxpayerlongtrman said:
Redneckford, your support and wisdom have been invaluable to the dealers and for that you have our Thanks. I don't think you were the subject of the last few posts.please continue to post,your past experiences and knowledge and support are welcomed.-----taxpayerredneckford said:
SESS
Gold Member
Longtrman-good message to us all. The Farmtrac dealers (as you yourself know!) are just feeling the heat from all directions. No one likes to talk about money or the lack of it! No one likes bill collectors! No one likes unhappy customers! And we dealers are getting that from every direction. Can't go to the grocery store without seeing a customer and them ask about Farmtrac. Its embarassing and we didn't have anything to do with it! If it wasnt for tractorbynet, alot of us would not have known about the Farmtrac mess when we did!! The dealers want all this to work out and are trying our darnedest to make things happen. We can buy parts from someplace, we can buy more tractors, but we cannot buy our good reputation that is at stack here! Come REDNECKFORD, you feel our pain-don't leave us now!
When you say the front office is "all Indians" that brings ethnicity into play. You played the "race card".longtrman said:
As far as correct, I dunno. The whole thing is a bad deal. To prevail in a lawsuit you will have to prove misconduct and intent to defraud. Your thinking where they recruited their management team and who should be responsible will not meet the burden of proof to win a decision.John
Oh Curly-tailed one,
Nothing like gaining the ire of a national dealer network more than 280 strong, eh? It is an unenviable position.
I've been fortunate enough to work hand-in-hand with these fine folks and dutiful Americans.
If these guys and girls were your neighbors, you'd shake their hand. If they were the dealer you bought your tractor from, you'd hug them and root for them.
Kennedy said "the farmer is the only person who sells at wholesale price and and pays the freight both ways."
Remember this: If they don't produce food and sell the implements to grow it, you and I don't eat.
I'm a fan of dinnertime. You?
Its simple: Root for Farmtrac retailers!
Regards,
--b
Nothing like gaining the ire of a national dealer network more than 280 strong, eh? It is an unenviable position.
I've been fortunate enough to work hand-in-hand with these fine folks and dutiful Americans.
Their job as legislators: adequately represent their constituents, the people.swines said:
Far from it! These are hard working folks who take pride in advocating for themselves -- and their customers -- under adverse conditions.swines said:
Your threshold question does not apply to the Farmtrac retailers. See above.swines said:
If these guys and girls were your neighbors, you'd shake their hand. If they were the dealer you bought your tractor from, you'd hug them and root for them.
Kennedy said "the farmer is the only person who sells at wholesale price and and pays the freight both ways."
Remember this: If they don't produce food and sell the implements to grow it, you and I don't eat.
I'm a fan of dinnertime. You?
Its simple: Root for Farmtrac retailers!
Regards,
--b
My discussion was never meant to be proof of wrong doing. It was only meant to show if wrong doing is suspected strongly enough to warrant court action that even though people have told me you can't sue across national borders there may be a way. If Farmtrac is truly an independent subsidiary there is probably no hope of a suit reaching the court.NewToy said:When you say the front office is "all Indians" that brings ethnicity into play. You played the "race card".
John
Although not proof in court, I personally believe that Escorts put the management in Farmtrac. Since I won't be the one creating the lawsuit I'll leave it to the professionals to prove that Farmtrac didn't have power to run day to day business at Tarboro without permission from Escorts. Personally I believe that Farmtrac was more agent than subsidiary. In a lawsuit reported on the internet Escorts lost a suit brought by poor Indian farmers who had given money to Escorts through Indian dealers. Escorts did not provide the tractors even though it received the money for the tractors. The courts held that the Indian dealers were agents and that Escorts had to pay the farmers. American dealers are not agents--they operate independent businesses and do not collect money in the name of their franchise manufacturer. Your discussion helps get the idea out to companies like LS, Textron, UTB and others that are owed enough money that a lawsuit becomes feasible. A lawsuit at the dealer level is probably not for enough money to take the risk of loss. As I said before the ethnicity of the management is not a factor other than something to cause a "Dick Tracy" type to look at who actually called the shots at Farmtrac. Was it Farmtrac,NA or Escorts,LTD?
The following article is dated sept 6,2005. I believe this was about the time Farmtrac started showing signs of trouble, according to court docs. have go back and check that. coincidence????
ESCORTS LIMITED: Revamps Board After Official Departures
--------------------------------------------------------
Troubled tractor maker Escorts Limited has reconstituted its
board Thursday last week, a day after the mass resignation of
all its directors, except Rajan Nanda, The Times of India
reports.
Mr. Nanda's son Nichil Nanda, who also stepped down Wednesday
last week, has been appointed chief operating officer (COO) of
the Company.
Four new directors, former UTI chairman SA Dave, former union
ministers MGK Menon, PS Pritam and SC Bhargava have joined as
directors on board. Mr. Dave and Mr. Menon had resigned from
board on August 31 and August 29 respectively.
According to a source, the company has defaulted on repayment of
debentures worth INR50 crore to ICICI Bank. If the directors
continue to be on board for one year during the course of
default, they can not continue on board of other companies. To
avoid this, the source said they resigned from the board of
Escorts.
Last year, Escorts announced that it would raise INR800 crore
from abroad. The money was supposed to come by August this year.
But a company source said the infusion of the fresh capital has
been delayed, which resulted into the default.
Escorts is also facing problem of working capital as the banks
have stopped lending it fresh money. The source said the company
would require at least INR500 crore in the next six months.
Rajan Nanda said the company was in the final stage of
negotiations for financial restructuring, which will ensure
injection of funds and replacement of high cost debt.
Escorts posted a net loss of INR57.3 crore in the quarter ending
June.
About Escorts Limited-----------Taxpayer
ESCORTS LIMITED: Revamps Board After Official Departures
--------------------------------------------------------
Troubled tractor maker Escorts Limited has reconstituted its
board Thursday last week, a day after the mass resignation of
all its directors, except Rajan Nanda, The Times of India
reports.
Mr. Nanda's son Nichil Nanda, who also stepped down Wednesday
last week, has been appointed chief operating officer (COO) of
the Company.
Four new directors, former UTI chairman SA Dave, former union
ministers MGK Menon, PS Pritam and SC Bhargava have joined as
directors on board. Mr. Dave and Mr. Menon had resigned from
board on August 31 and August 29 respectively.
According to a source, the company has defaulted on repayment of
debentures worth INR50 crore to ICICI Bank. If the directors
continue to be on board for one year during the course of
default, they can not continue on board of other companies. To
avoid this, the source said they resigned from the board of
Escorts.
Last year, Escorts announced that it would raise INR800 crore
from abroad. The money was supposed to come by August this year.
But a company source said the infusion of the fresh capital has
been delayed, which resulted into the default.
Escorts is also facing problem of working capital as the banks
have stopped lending it fresh money. The source said the company
would require at least INR500 crore in the next six months.
Rajan Nanda said the company was in the final stage of
negotiations for financial restructuring, which will ensure
injection of funds and replacement of high cost debt.
Escorts posted a net loss of INR57.3 crore in the quarter ending
June.
About Escorts Limited-----------Taxpayer
SESS
Gold Member
For all the "not even zero" customers, I post this website again for you ALL to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. Here is the address to click on: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
Please remember that VOLUME of complaints make a difference! Take the time and file your complaint against Farmtrac North America.
Every customer that is out warranty on their tractor should also file a complaint.
Please remember that VOLUME of complaints make a difference! Take the time and file your complaint against Farmtrac North America.
Every customer that is out warranty on their tractor should also file a complaint.
taxpayer said:The following article is dated sept 6,2005. I believe this was about the time Farmtrac started showing signs of trouble, according to court docs. have go back and check that. coincidence????
ESCORTS LIMITED: Revamps Board After Official Departures
--------------------------------------------------------
Troubled tractor maker Escorts Limited has reconstituted its
board Thursday last week, a day after the mass resignation of
all its directors, except Rajan Nanda, The Times of India
reports.
Mr. Nanda's son Nichil Nanda, who also stepped down Wednesday
last week, has been appointed chief operating officer (COO) of
the Company.
Four new directors, former UTI chairman SA Dave, former union
ministers MGK Menon, PS Pritam and SC Bhargava have joined as
directors on board. Mr. Dave and Mr. Menon had resigned from
board on August 31 and August 29 respectively.
According to a source, the company has defaulted on repayment of
debentures worth INR50 crore to ICICI Bank. If the directors
continue to be on board for one year during the course of
default, they can not continue on board of other companies. To
avoid this, the source said they resigned from the board of
Escorts.
Last year, Escorts announced that it would raise INR800 crore
from abroad. The money was supposed to come by August this year.
But a company source said the infusion of the fresh capital has
been delayed, which resulted into the default.
Escorts is also facing problem of working capital as the banks
have stopped lending it fresh money. The source said the company
would require at least INR500 crore in the next six months.
Rajan Nanda said the company was in the final stage of
negotiations for financial restructuring, which will ensure
injection of funds and replacement of high cost debt.
Escorts posted a net loss of INR57.3 crore in the quarter ending
June.
About Escorts Limited-----------Taxpayer
1 crore = 10 million Rupees which =$166,666.66 in Oct 2005
How much is missing?
In 2005 there was a shortage of tractors in Tarboro. Escorts in India had made investments in a chain of hospitals and also invested in the cell phone business.....both of these ventures resulted in the company losing an enormous amount of money. The assembly lines at the tractor plant came to virtually a stand-still. In 2006 there was an oversupply of tractors. Escorts had gotten rid of these money-losing investments and gotten back to building tractors "full-time". Then there came to Tarboro a man named Mr. Pranob, who was sent to run things after the Escorts company in India took over full control of Longagribusiness and the name was changed to Farmtrac........then came the "never come due" terms and the "Less Than
Zero " finance terms ..........then certain employees left the company because they did not feel comfortable with the "new" business plan...........to use Tarboro to recoup India's losses. However, according to court documents which are public record in N.C., Escorts of India claims that approximately 23 million dollars never made it back to India. ALL of this ties together somehow and the truth will eventually come out.
Zero " finance terms ..........then certain employees left the company because they did not feel comfortable with the "new" business plan...........to use Tarboro to recoup India's losses. However, according to court documents which are public record in N.C., Escorts of India claims that approximately 23 million dollars never made it back to India. ALL of this ties together somehow and the truth will eventually come out.
SESS
Gold Member
Where is Uncle Sam with the Mr. IRS man when we need him!?
Uncle Sam can always find the missing money!
Uncle Sam can always find the missing money!
Remember that 23 million dollars of the approximately 54 millon dollars that Farmtrac NA owes is said to be owed to Escorts of India. This is strait out of of the Recievers report so it must be thought to be a legitamate debt. It is also in the court records for anyone to read who wants to look it up........Why did this money not make it back to India? Where is the money now? If it did not make it back to India, then where did it go? No accusations made...........just questions to be asked......I do not claim to have the answer. But this is indeed a curious thing to think about.
Only one of two possile answers as to the 23 million dollar claim by Escorts of India against Farmtrac NA exists...it is one or the other, and at this time I do not profess to know the correct answer:
(1) Escorts claim that Tarboro owes them 23 million dollars is bogus and without merit.....in this case, if this is true, their claim is a joke !!!!
(2) Escorts claim that they are missing 23 million dollars is true...........in this case they are a victim of the Tarboro operation.
It has got to be one or the other....it cannot be both.....and it cannot be "half-way" between the two.
(1) Escorts claim that Tarboro owes them 23 million dollars is bogus and without merit.....in this case, if this is true, their claim is a joke !!!!
(2) Escorts claim that they are missing 23 million dollars is true...........in this case they are a victim of the Tarboro operation.
It has got to be one or the other....it cannot be both.....and it cannot be "half-way" between the two.
blueliner,if you have not done so,you might want to look at Long MFG.NC.INC on the sec of state site.might be suprised to learn about a FNA/Beaver Creek Capital Group, INC merger out of Deleware.as you progress take carefull note of names and dates.you can go all the way back to 1946 on this site. real interesting.-------------Taxpayerblueliner said:
taxpayer said:
Consider my nose to the ground and sniffing the trail again. Thanks, Taxpayer!
It also means this ...
Memo to any Enron-like dreg participants who may be reading: you have *one more* hound continuing to pound down your path... to the bitter end. You're not getting away -- period.
--b
