F350 V 10

[Z-Michigan]

I know about it first-hand. I put a new K&N in a new '01 Expedition. Engine started hesitating and generally running rough. Dealership found the Mass airflow sensor was bad. They said it was because of the K&N but they still replaced the sensor under warranty. Whether it was the K&N I don't know but I replaced it with the factory paper element and never had any more problems. Really never noticed a difference in performance between the two filters.

Symptoms sound about right. If it's caused by the K&N it should be really obvious as there should be red-colored oil on the sensor (K&N dyes their filter oil red). If there's no oil apparent on the sensor, it probably isn't the cause. I'm surprised this would happen with a fresh new K&N as they should have the amount of oil correct to avoid this, but who knows??? The stories I've heard about before - always some anonymous internet poster's buddy's friend's car - have been people putting too much oil on after washing the filter.

I had my own $40 K&N experiment on that Accord (2001 model, so it had MAF sensor and EFI) and I didn't see a difference either way. The intake sound changed very slightly, but neither the butt dyno nor the gas receipts showed a change.

 

[patrick_g]

I had my own $40 K&N experiment on that Accord (2001 model, so it had MAF sensor and EFI) and I didn't see a difference either way. The intake sound changed very slightly, but neither the butt dyno nor the gas receipts showed a change.

My K&N experiment was a 97 Dodge/Cummins 1ton. I put it on after I had changed paper filters a couple times. There is a stock filter minder gauge on that model that holds the worst reading achieved since being reset. This is so you can change filters based on actual need rather than guesswork of mileage or months neither of which means anything in particular as you could plug a filter in bad operating conditions in a short time or short distance.

After the K&N the filter minder never showed a change to be needed. This made me suspicious so I did some tests. I put some fairly porous but still restrictive paper (toilet paper) over a good portion of the filter so it would simulate partial plugging up like dirt would do. The filter minder registered it. I reduced the amount of simulated dirt (took some toilet paper off) and the minder indications changed appropriately. This gave me confidence that if the filter was plugged the minder would catch it and that the K&N was installed and fit correctly. Still, I drove and drove and drove and never got a plugged indication. I don't explain it, just report the observations taken under reasonably well controlled conditions. Draw your own conclusions.

I will probably just use standard filters on the new F-250PSD for air, oil, fuel, and anything else I discover a filter in.

About the change in engine sound... A speedy lube place I used because I was in the middle of a pickup camper based vacation once in my 84 Ford pickup camper rig didn't have the right filter so they substituted one the same but taller. The air cleaner lid didn't seal on the bottom of the air cleaner assy. There was no path for air to get around the cleaner but it destroyed the "silencer" action of the air intake system. As soon as I accelerated hard to merge on the interstate I noticed lots more noise and got off and went back. They blew out the old one recovered from the dumpster and put it back in. AHH, much quieter. There is a lot of valve and other noise audible in the air intake system and if it isn't attenuated it will surely make the noise coming into the cab from under the hood much much worse.

Pat

 

[rback33]

I have heard that K & N does not do a good job of filtration and lets the particulates through. This COULD explain why it never showed a need to be changed. I have never used one, so I do have a horse in the race, but that is one of many conclusions that could be drawn from the situation as it as presented. If that WERE the case your engine would certainly be suffering. I know with the care you give your vehicles this would have probably shown up, but who knows for sure. Everyones experiences are different. My bro does run K & N on his ATV's however. Again.. does it help? heck if I know... if nothing else it makes a difference in his head and maybe that's all that matters.

 

[Kahuna]

I see we are going from a V10 to K&N filters. For the record, I had a 5.4 gas in a F250. I put in the K&N cold air induction plus a flowmaster muffler to gain hp and economy. The $400 got me a little different sound but no more mileage or noticeable power. The 5.4 was still in the 10-12 mpg range. Moral of the story, stock does just as well and if you are planning on going with a gas Ford get the V10 instead of the V8 since the mileage is about the same. The 5.4 was a dog, the V10 should be a lot better.

 

[patrick_g]

My bro does run K & N on his ATV's however. Again.. does it help? heck if I know... if nothing else it makes a difference in his head and maybe that's all that matters.

Most snake oil claims for automotive stuff are unsubstantiated at best. Some models of diesel truck can reduce their turbo lag and get to decent acceleration RPM faster if they make mods to reduce restriction in the air path, including the exhaust. I went to 4 inch exhaust with smooth bends and it did reduce my turbo lag. I never perceived a measurable benefit from the K&N "so called" filter charger.

I did definitely improve my HP and torque measurably with a change of injector pump and injectors while simultaneously getting a little better mileage. How do you improve HP while getting better mileage? Finer fuel plume that burns more completely. The down side? You have to watch the pyro to avoid going too hot and melting something. You can consistently develop more HP towing up hills and such safely but you have the ability to cause harm if you "stay in it" too long and hard. I can safely produce more HP and or torque until I run out of fuel but that doesn't mean full throttle up a hill under a heavy load forever. You have to engage your brain and think about what you are doing just a little.

I was told that a K&N filter would help flow more air. I couldn't tell the difference.

I don't suspect that the V-10 drivers will be able to measure a meaningful difference in performance either before vs after a K&N installation. The placebo effect figures in, I'm sure, sort of a faith healing for vehicles. You read the hype, pay your money, and are predisposed to "feel the difference" but good luck measuring it in actual normal operations.

Pat

 

[JiminGa]

I've run my v10 for about 80k miles with the k&n and can't tell the difference, exept the dang oil and soap is more expensive than a plain old paper filter!

 

[ihookem]

Ok Pat, you want me to use my brain a little? I tried to and here is my observation. I bought a K&N filter for my Duramax and didn't get any more mileage. Not even 1/10 mpg.10k later I bought an Amsoil air filter and put them both up to the light. I could see right through the K&N filter even after 10k mi. I could see light through the Amsoil but not much. I'm not getting better mileage with the Amsoil air filter but I'll bet it's trapping more dirt. I will try to use my brain again. My friend totalled his half ton Dodge Later he found an awsum deal on a 10cyl. 3/4 ton Dodge. He uses more gas empty but pulling his boat the 3/4 ton gets the same mileage as his 1/2 ton. Our genious brains figured it takes a certain amount of energy to pull a certain amount of weight. I also conclude a Ford 10 cyl would be much like the Dodge 10 cyl. How did I do Pat?

 

[mjncad]

OK, has anyone put any of the BANKS Power products on their V10? Any thoughts on whether BANKS products are worth the bucks or just high priced shiny stuff that is all show and no go?

 

[unreconstructed]

The 350 I have with V-10 I have with a stick and 4.10 rear--the 5.4 F250)I had also had a stick but 3.73 rear. I am not an engineer type, but seems like its comparing apples and oranges when comparing these two units. Nevertheless, the best mileage I ever got with the F250 set up was about 15 to 15 1/2 mpg empty. Even though I have had the V10 only 1600 miles, at this point, I would certainly recommend the V-10 over the 5.4. Am getting about the same mileage towing anyway. And the V-10 was about 450 bucks as an option on my XL package. As I stated before, I never considered the 5.4 a real dog, but there is daylight and dark between the two rigs when towing what I tow.

Thanks for the comments about th K&N. It seemed to help my 5.4, but I never did any exacting experiments so the poster who mentioned the placebo effect probably hit the nail on the head.

 

[patrick_g]

Ok Pat, you want me to use my brain a little? How did I do Pat?

Just fine, I hope but I don't know.

So far no one has stepped up to the plate with a convincing story about how K&N improved anything. I may hedge my bets and put a good quality paper filter in all my trucks and just use the K&N decals!

Pat

 

[john_bud]

There was a study on thedieselplace.com about the effectiveness of air filters. Flow and particle entrapment. Surprise! The factory AC Delco filter trapped the most particles and flowed as much as any of them. The K&N did flow more, but didn't actually stop much in the way of airborne particulates. Results are from my memory, if you want the straight facts, you'll have to search them out.

Engine wear out is DRAMATICALLY impacted by the amount of airborne particulates that get past the filter.

That's why the AC filter is still in place!

jb

 

[patrick_g]

JB, I didn't mention that I abandoned the K&N instead of washing and oiling A N D not put it on any other vehicles as any sort of advantage in having a little more airflow-power is not worth as much as longer engine life to me. I gt all the extra HP and Torque I need from the injector pump and injector mods along with the free flowing exhaust.

Some folks who don't keep there vehicles as long as I do may not mind. A smart buyer might discount the condition of a vehicle if it had the K&N decal on it.

Pat

 

[ddivinia]

If you're getting that kind of mileage then you've got a sick truck. The emissions equipment has definately hurt mileage but not that bad. My '08 F-450 has only 1600 miles but so far it's gotten a high of 15 highway and 12 city driving. That's with a 4.30 axle ratio and a 8900# truck. You do have to keep your speed down, these trucks are as aerodynamic as a brick. The mileage on all the new diesels have been hurt by the emission equipment.

The V-10 is supposed to be a bulletproof engine. I've never heard of anyone having a major problem with one. They make a lot of sense in an F-250/350 SRW pickup.

I know of a handful of people getting really bad mileage and Ford isn't doing anything about it.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

Quadzilla air box and filter on my 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 gave 20 RWHP on the dyno. I would not have believed it if i had not seen it. The only thing changed was the air box and filter. The stock filter was pretty much new and clean. Yeah, I kept the Quadzilla after I saw the numbers.

D.

 

[JESSE1]

I know of a handful of people getting really bad mileage and Ford isn't doing anything about it.

D.

Ford isn't the only one getting bad mileage. The new emissions systems required on all the new diesels is the main culprit. It takes quite a bit of extra fuel for the system to burn out the DPF. Also, 350-365 hp engines are going to burn more fuel for that extra power. I'd like to be able to get 20 mpg with my F-450 but it's not going to happen. Compared to my first diesel pickup, an '82 GMC with a 6.2 (130hp), I'll take the '08 6.4 with 350 hp and lower mileage.

 

[KICK]

a good friend of mine who is a ASE certified master tech had a v8 firebird that wouldn't pass emmisions. he did all kinds of testing trying to figure out why the long term fuel trim wasn't where it was supposed to be, went in circles wit the car for awhile..

then he took the KN filter out and put in a plain old paper filter. couldn't believe it, that hi buck air filter was causing the car not to pass emissions.

end result was KN in the garbage.

I've put em on my bikes, about the only difference I noticed was more intake noise....

most stuff people do to computer controlled vehicles is a waste of money.

all you gotta do is ask yourself who knows more about that vehicle, say someone like Hot Truck Magazine who depends on advertising revenue from parts vendors like KN or banks to make a profit, or the people who designed and built that vehicle?

 

[Stimw]

Back to the V-10s , google V-10 Ford spark plugs and you will find problems with them blowing plugs out of the heads. I have seen complaints on engines as back far as 1999. Ford claims it's because non mechanics aren't torqueing them properly. I've NEVER used a torque wrench on a spark plug!
There are even after market thread kits to repair the spark plug holes because it seems Helicoils won't work on these heads. All you have to do is remove the heads, drill out the holes, rethread them and install the coils.
As to the Pinto, 60 minutes had the Ford memo, Estimated cost to pay off burn victums- $29 million, cost to make car safer- $5. each or $ 49 million.

 

[mjncad]

As to the Pinto, 60 minutes had the Ford memo, Estimated cost to pay off burn victums- $29 million, cost to make car safer- $5. each or $ 49 million.

I remember the 60 Minutes article when I used to watch the show, and I don't recall the total dollar amounts in millions. However, the pay off costs to burn victims still does not take into account the harder to quantify amount of bad press and lost sales from bad press.

 

[unreconstructed]

Since I started this thread, I have driven a little over 1,800 miles in my new
F350 V-10 with stick. Mileage is pretty well within the 13.-5 to 14.5 range combined town-highway driviing (not towing). Not much less than my old F250 5.4 with stick, 3.73 gears. May be able to take the 5203 to the place over New Years. Will see then if towing mileage has gone up any. Really don't care to tell the truth. Had rather buy gas than push that #$%^ wheel barrow again.

 

[patrick_g]

I've NEVER used a torque wrench on a spark plug!

And likely neither has the guys who blew the plugs out of their heads after their DIY plug changes.

There are torque specs for proper seating of plugs, with and without the crushable copper gaskets or whatever. Given the posted info re problems with plugs blowing out, I think I would start using a torque wrench to tighten the plugs in that V-10. Especially sine the fix is way more hassle than a simple helicoil job.

Pat