Expectant PT1430 daddy

   / Expectant PT1430 daddy
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

RegL,

Given the condition my 1430 arrived in, the lack of quality control indicated, the unacceptable repsonse I've received from PT service, and my particular state of mind at the moment given the above, I cannot honestly recommend that you write a check to PT.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy
  • Thread Starter
#22  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

RegL,

If you do buy the 1430, I would recommend you ask for the (apparently optional) non-pre-contaminated fuel and hydro tanks.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #23  
Re: 1430 stalling saga continues...

Ouch! That's awful. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif The fuel tank on my PT425 is plastic. I take it the fuel tank on your 1430 is all metal. Did Power Trac build it themselves? If so, that is unacceptable quality control. Completely unacceptable. I don't think anyone here would mind you blowing off some steam at this point.

I assume you asked Power Trac how they could deliver a machine that was not in running condition? If I were Power Trac, I'd do two things:

1. Send you an apology, a new fuel filter and instructions to take it to a mechanic(Stewart & Stevenson, possibly) to flush out the tank and fuel lines, change the fuel filter and send Power Trac the bill.

2. Have a serious talk with the quality control team in the fuel tank department, if you know what I mean.

I'm sorry for your very bad experience and I hope Power Trac steps up to the task of correcting it, if it is indeed as you describe. Please keep us posted as to how they handle it. Thanks.

David G.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Re: 1430 stalling saga continues...

<font color="blue">I take it the fuel tank on your 1430 is all metal. Did Power Trac build it themselves? </font>
The tank is all metal and I kinda assume PT built it -- otherwise they would have the quick out of "contact the OEM", but did not do so.

<font color="blue">If so, that is unacceptable quality control. Completely unacceptable. I don't think anyone here would mind you blowing off some steam at this point.</font>
I certainly agree but, due to language restrictions on this forum, (as you were quick to demonstrate to me) my blowing off steam will have to take place somewhere else. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="blue">I assume you asked Power Trac how they could deliver a machine that was not in running condition? If I were Power Trac, I'd do two things:

1. Send you an apology, a new fuel filter and instructions to take it to a mechanic(Stewart & Stevenson, possibly) to flush out the tank and fuel lines, change the fuel filter and send Power Trac the bill.</font>

That, or something close to it, is exactly what I plan to ask for tomorrow -- first I wanted to see how PT would respond to my question of "what can you offer me" and then think about what to ask for. Has anyone else succeeded in obtaining such a solution from PT?

I do give them credit for sending a new fuel filter without hesitation the first time I called about the problem, just on speculation. I was also sent a replacement hydro quick-connect for my hoe which refuses to lock onto the PTO. The bad news (by implication) is... your implements were never even hooked up at the factory, let alone tested. (well, ok, I guess the coupling could have been damaged in transit).

My read on the PT service policy at this point is... if the problem can be handled at the cost of a few minutes on the phone and a < $5 part, then they are all over it. Anything serious, even an obvious manufacturing defect, even one that could destroy your expensive diesel engine, is met with a political, evasive, CYA language and no remedy.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Re: 1430 stalling saga continues...

No PT experience is real until there are... pictures! So here's a disturbing, horrifying, shocking entry titled....

It Came from the PT1430 Fuel Tank

/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

(only a small sample actually... the full quantity would be just too much for the squemish) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #26  
Re: 1430 stalling saga continues...

Yuk! Good luck in your dealings tomorrow.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #27  
Re: 1430 stalling saga continues...

Good night!

I am shocked. Before I purchased my PT425, I had a talk with Terry Estep, who assured me that they stand behind everything they ship, and take very good care of their customers. He told me this was they way they do things at PT - the old fashioned 'my word is my bond' way.

I would approach PT, and Terry, with a cheery attitude, and assume that they want to fix things. I have found (having worked Customer Service for many years), that cheerful and upbeat customers who are reasonable and relaxed get the best service, because it really helps the service guys (e.g. Terry) to feel relaxed and willing to help as well.

I would definitely ask them what they believe is reasonable, and then have a backup plan for what to ask for - I think David's suggestion is a valid one. Correction of the problem, and I usually think something to balance it out - restore the balance - is appropriate.

For example, yesterday a customer called (I run a software business) as he had discovered a bug in our installer. We called him personally and told him we were on the case. Our tech team stayed late to fix it, and didn't go to sleep until it was corrected. As soon as it was fixed, we sent the repair instructions to the customers, and I authorized a partial refund of his purchase price, along with our thanks for being patient and understanding. We plan to follow up with a phone call early next week to make sure he is working OK. That's our policy - fix the problem - communicate with the customer, and then go beyond the call of duty to set the balance right. In our case, the customer did not ask for a credit - we proactively applied it and sent it to him with a thank you note.

I believe PT should do the same.

I also think that PT should understand how much we communicate on this site, and how much influence it has over purchases. Any thoughts on a lobbying group? Ideas?

iono, I wish you the best, and will keep in thought as you run through this ordeal. I remain hopeful but shocked!

-Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #28  
Re: 1430 stalling saga continues...

Iono,

You have my total sympathy. Right about now you must be feeling like your worst fears have been realized about buying a Power-Trac. Hang in there. I think all of us will agree that Power-Trac should never deliver a brand new tractor that will not run. However, as the folks with the Robin engines can confirm, it does happen. I don’t think its acceptable and they better pay a little more attention to Quality Control or they will not be able to grow their business.

That said (off my chest), the real question is what to do now. What should you ask from Power-Trac in order to make this right? I don’t know what Power-Trac will do but I do know what I would do if it were my business. At the least, I would send you a box of fuel, hydraulic, and even air filters. I would also offer to replace the fuel tank if it would help alleviate your concerns. In the most extreme case, I would offer to replace the tractor if it hasn’t been used. I may ask you to pay part of the freight thought if I felt this problem wasn’t really a “big deal” (more on that below).

That said, my guess is that the best you will get out of Power-Trac is some additional filters. Power-Trac will likely claim (perhaps even correctly) that the design specifications allow for contamination of the fuel and hydraulic tanks. I know that in the past when some folks have heard strange hydraulic noises, Power-Trac has identified the cause as welding slag in the hydraulic filter left over from the manufacturing process. I believe Power-Trac considers this normal. The same is probably true with the fuel tank. Of course we can agreed that there should not be so much junk in these tanks that the fluid flow in restricted. You may have an extreme case. I would send the pictures to Terry. I would also ask Terry if it is “normal” to have a moderate (although yours is extreme) amount of contamination in the fuel tank after manufacturing. All metal fuel tanks that aren’t galvanized will rust at some point. Therefore, I suspect the Power-Trac engineers may expect some fuel tank contamination. It would be interesting to know for future reference.

What to do now? Regardless of what you work out with Power-Trac, and assuming that swapping the tractor is not a viable option, I would take the fuel tank off, drain it, and see if I could clean it out. As noted above, this probably isn’t necessary but I would feel better just to do it. Then I would go down to TSC and buy one of those old bowl filters like was/are used on Ford 8N’s and the like. I would install the bowl filter between the fuel tank and the regular fuel filter. The bowl filter has no fuel restriction and would serve as an excellent pre-filter. I would buy a strong magnet at Surplus Supply and attach it to the side of the pre-filter to grab all the small metal particles. Not only is this filter easy to clean, but you get the advantage of monitoring how much junk is coming out of your tank. I would also attach a few of these magnets to the side of the hydraulic tank, from inside the engine compartment, while I was at it.

And finally, after I did all this, I would use the tractor and try to forget about it. Despite the fact that this should not have happened, I think the chance that any lasting damage was done is very low. Did you ask the mechanic for his opinion on this question? I don’t know much about diesel injectors, but I suspect they are extremely sensitive to contamination. If anything got by the filter, I doubt the tractor would run. Maybe someone with diesel experience will weigh in one this question. Remember, these engines are designed to run in the most extreme conditions. I would be completely shocked if any damage was caused by the contaminated fuel tank.

Although very frustrating, it seems that a high percentage of Power-Trac’s need some “fine tuning” when they arrive. With a “normal” tractor, one would rely on a dealer network to catch and fix these issues. If you could have purchased the Power-Trac thru a normal dealer, I would bet he would have picked it up, claimed to have made a few minor adjustments (i.e., replaced the fuel filter) and you wouldn’t have known the difference. The dealer network of the big three actually “hides” a lot of manufacturing issues by catching the issues during dealer prep of the tractor, or by fixing them after the fact and claiming it was something minor. That’s where the dealer earns his 20%-30% margin (if he’s lucky these days). We don’t have to pay that margin on our Power-Trac’s, but we become intimately familiar with every mis-adjustment or manufacturing issue.

Remember, in the big perspective, this isn’t a big deal (easy for me to say I know). Hang there…it gets better from here.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #29  
Metal particles in fuel tank

I checked the interior of my fuel tank. There was minor rusting in some areas. Probing the bottom of the tank with a magnet yielded filings and metal debris similar to those pictured in IONO's post. I have about 30 hours on the machine and have not experienced any problems. I guess I understand now why PT requires filters to be changed every 50 hours!!
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #30  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

Iono,

To late, I'm expecting my PT to pull into the driveway within a couple of hours. The first thing I'm going to do is probe around in the fuel tank. I like that idea of mounting a magnet on the tank. I think i'll just mention that I heard about a problem to the trucker also because it sounded like he was a friend of the guys at PT. It might make them perk up a little if word gets back that a guy in CT. knows about a problem tractor in TX. Anyway, I'll post more later, I have to go wait for that new 1430.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #31  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

these problems with dirt and metal contamination sounds painfully familiar. the more you talk to them,the more you will find that you are on your own.
i went too pt twice,never once did they say they had any kind of qc.or insp. dept. it's the same old thing you get what you pay for.don't expect any more and you will not be disappointed
they do make a good product ,that needs a little tlc. mine didn't run for almost 3 months, i didn't get any help. they don't deliver,only tell you what you want too hear,don't think they will call back.
after the problem with engine was fixed i put the mower on and found the blades hit and i called to tell them about it, terry ask why i waited so long to tell them.like he didn't know i was down with the engine problem. he has never called back about the long blades.never once did they offer to send the right ones.
fix it your self,don't be disapointed. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #32  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

Hey Regl -where in CT are you - just curious - I am in CT and Richard - not to many owners here - I have the 1845 - have not probed the tank yet - but I love the 45 hp engine
- I have been away for two weeks and did not run the tractor for a week before i left - hit the key and boom she starts so quick - so hang ion there the guys the Diesels are great engines once you get the line cleared -

too bad about PT - but it does not surprise me - they won't become much more than they are with the way they deal with customers - I love the product but there are many things I don't like about the Company - see numerous other posts - they are worried about competition and withhold info - they are their own worst enemy - Terry is usually good and responsive though - (he won't call back you have to call him)
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy
  • Thread Starter
#33  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

First, I sure appreciate all the notes and support from this forum. It has helped me build a better picture of what I can and cannot expect from PT. I believe my expectations were reasonable (be delivered a running machine, or get total support and remedy if that's not the case), but it looks like some ajustment, to both the machine and my expectations, will have to be made.

I still feel like a got a very unique, capable, flexible, inexpensive, and just plain cool machine. It's going to be just fine and soon it'll be doing the things I bought it for.

It also seems clear that the only advantage of PT as a company is that they fill a particlar niche that is not served well by other companies right now. But their advantages, as I see them now, are strictly limited to price and machine design... period. If another company can fill the design part, and back it with higher quality, good service, and distributorships, PT will be in serious trouble as a viable business. But let's enjoy our machines and not think about that too much right now. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway, thanks again for all the notes... I'll keep everyone posted about the final resolution, whatever that may be (I will certainly be using of a lot of the information provided to help guide my efforts) and then move on to better topics (like adapting the blade to another axis of tilt, road building, and tales of great carnage from my juniper choked property).
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #34  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

One of the solutions you might consider is having the fuel tank interior sealed. I have done it on several motorcycle gas tanks with excellent results. I have also done two metal fuel tanks. Three years later all is still rust free. I also filter all my fuel into my offroad gas tanks. One crudded engine is not worth the frustration of trying to get it to run right.
Just my three cents worth. Bob /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #35  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

Hi Ed, I'm up here in Salisbury. I went to to trade school back in the 60's with Dave DiMaria from Winsted. Any relation? PT 1430 came in last evening right on time and and I got it dirty already. Put a little over two hours on it grinding an old stump in the yard and field mowing. It's running good so far. I checked the fuel tank with a magnet and also came up with fine metal shavings, I'm guessing all the steel tanks have them so unless I develope a problem or hear about more people with failures, I'm going to try to not worry about it.

Just to report, the stump grinder worked pretty good. I only did an old Poplar stump that was not very hard, I'll give it a better work out before long. One thing I did find out, is that when stump grinding, the tractor needs some kind of windshield. After about Half an hour my shirt was filled with chips and dirt. Face got stung pretty good also. Im thinking I could strap a couple hooks to the ROPS and hang a piece of plexeglass from them.

My concern about the brush cutter deck not being open enough to cut high grass cleanly was certainly unfounded. It's actually open in the back as well as the front. I mowed down 6' high weeds and grass cleanly and it was soaking wet as I was mowing in between the rain showers we have been getting today.

Ok now for questions. I was surprized the PT doesn't have a tach. What's the best amount of throttle, or dosen't engine speed determine attchment speed in a hydrolic system?
Second, do PT attachments have shear pins or do the hydrolics absorb shock say when a mower blade hits something that dosen't move? Well, gotta go, suns coming back out.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #36  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

With most diesel engines, there's a recommended breakin procedure. I think Kubota recommends to avoid maximum RPMs during the first 50 hours and to avoid running the tractor at a fixed RPM for long periods during the first 50 hours. Something like that. Is there a recommended breakin procedure for the Deutz? When I asked Power-Trac about the breakin procedure for the Kohler, they laughed and said "no, just hit it and don't worry about it."

RegL, don't forget to post a picture when you get a chance. Always nice to see and new tractor in someone's yard.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #37  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

I know that everyone or several here talk about break in procedures. I have yet to talk to any farmer that worries about it. They do just like Power-Trac and I do, they just take it out and go to work. There are a lot of 10-15,000 hour tractors that have been taken to the farm and put on large mold board plows for several days. This also makes sure the rings are seated. I have seen a tractor or two that had to have a overhaul because they were babied and the rings did not seat.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #38  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

Hi Reg -

The brush hog does not have shear pins - it has hinged, swinging blades - if it encounters something too hard to cut, the blades swing back. I encountered this a few times running into fir tree roots - the blades whack the root and then the hub continues while the blade is rotated back. You sure know when it happens. After brush hogging for several hours you get a feel for things.

A lot of guys have used the 'tiny tach' that is at tiny tach website. It has some limitations - doesn't update in real-time, and self-contained power supply = must replace the entire unit in a few years. Good thing = it's very inexpensive. Now, I'll freely admit that I'm not sure how this would work with a diesel, since there is no spark lead to do an inductive pickup. I know it will work on the gas engines.

-Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #39  
Re: 1430 arrives intact... but sickly

I know that the recommendation for throttle for my Toro ZTR is full throttle at all times for mowing. My understanding is that the drive ratio is engineered to get design blade tip speed at full throttle.

I assume that best mowing performance with the PT is obtained at full throttle. That is my personal experience. Deutz engines are designed to run at full throttle day in and day out.

As to tach's I purchased an analog one from my local Deutz distributor--It turned out to be significantly more expensive than the $65 that Tiny Tach costs for the model that works on a diesel (uses a transducer mounted on an injector line). With the analog tach there also is the issue of calibration. If I had it to do over I would buy the Tiny Tach and expect to replace the unit when the permanently sealed battery died--the manufacturer says up to 8 year life.
 
   / Expectant PT1430 daddy #40  
So, how's life with your newly restored little baby?

-Rob /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

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