Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed?

   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #91  
only 2-3? :) since they will have to come thru the bedroom door single file, probably 1 shot from my .416 rigby should do. ( especially if one of them is a cape buffalo! ). that or one of the .50 cal pistols.. :) ;)

soundguy
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #92  
When I started on the police department in 1964, the department had some of the 45 caliber Thompson submachine guns. But we only got to fire a 3 round burst on the range when I was in the academy.:laughing: I never knew of one being used away from the range, or even taken away from the range.:laughing:

A department I worked at in the '70's had several Thompsons and a couple Reising's. I always intended to get a picture of myself with them but never did.
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #93  
When I started on the police department in 1964, the department had some of the 45 caliber Thompson submachine guns. But we only got to fire a 3 round burst on the range when I was in the academy.:laughing: I never knew of one being used away from the range, or even taken away from the range.:laughing:

Seems the evolution of law enforcement armament has changed with the times.

From six shot .38's and a Remington 870 or an Ithaca deerslayer to 16 round pistols and full on military type rifles.

Like I mentioned previously, it was all the rage when LE started carrying full auto sub caliber guns, the HK mp5 being the standard.

images


But that actually was only for a very short period of time, The hysteria that 9/11 caused made that little stick obsolete.

new%20york%20cop%20m%2016_1.jpg



JB
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #94  
Seems the evolution of law enforcement armament has changed with the times.

From six shot .38's and a Remington 870 or an Ithaca deerslayer to 16 round pistols and full on military type rifles.

Like I mentioned previously, it was all the rage when LE started carrying full auto sub caliber guns, the HK mp5 being the standard.

But that actually was only for a very short period of time, The hysteria that 9/11 caused made that little stick obsolete.

JB

Times have changed and Law Enforcement reacts to the changes. Agencies really moved to semi auto pistols from revolvers because of the FBI Miami Shoot out AND they moved to large calibers. The FBI went with the 10mm which morphed into the 40.

HK submachineguns were/are used for entry during hostages situations which happened quite a bit decades ago.

But then the thugs did not take hostages anymore and they just started killing people. LE reacted with new policies, training, and equipment. That reaction was too late because the changes did not happen until after Columbine. The changes should have happened pre Columbine since there had already been a number of school, work place and public massacres. The LA Bank Shootout pushed LE to have patrol rifles available. Having to use a shotgun with buckshot to take out a killer at long range and/or who is wearing body army is not going to work real well. Thus the move to rifles.

Given that the Feds sell or grant surplus military equipment, LE can end up with military weapons.

LE is going to get blamed if a large scale massacre takes place. The blame may or may not be valid but it certainly was valid at Columbine. The LE reaction at Columbine was horrible and people died as a result. Other types of public attacks are possible and do take place. Hopefully the world will never see another Beslan. If such an event happens in the US, local LE WILL be the first responders and they had better have their polices, training and equipment ready to handle the event. Equipment includes AR15/16.

I really do not buy into the idea of the militarization of LE. LE is reacting to new violence while trying to minimize I am far more concerned with the huge number of Federal Laws. Nobody knows the exact number and various administrations have tried to count the number of criminal Federal offenses. These laws, with criminal penalties, can be enforced by the ever expanding number of Federal Agencies who are adding LE to their duties. Some of these laws do not require that YOU know you are committing a crime. These statues can get you charged, convicted, and imprisoned for simply not filling out paperwork you did not know you were supposed to fill out. :eek:

The WSJ has been putting out quite a few stories on this over the last few months.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #95  
I really do not buy into the idea of the militarization of LE. LE is reacting to new violence while trying to minimize I am far more concerned with the huge number of Federal Laws. Nobody knows the exact number and various administrations have tried to count the number of criminal Federal offenses. These laws, with criminal penalties, can be enforced by the ever expanding number of Federal Agencies who are adding LE to their duties. Some of these laws do not require that YOU know you are committing a crime. These statues can get you charged, convicted, and imprisoned for simply not filling out paperwork you did not know you were supposed to fill out. :eek:

The WSJ has been putting out quite a few stories on this over the last few months.

Later,
Dan

They are definitely turning into military type organizations, with the encouragement of the Federal government. Only time will tell if that is a bad thing or not.
Small Ohio town's PD, even the uniforms are OD green :confused2:
team_with_cmt.jpg



It could most definitely be used as an argument to disarm or limit citizen's right to bear arms, in other words no need for this armed militia when the local PD is equipped for any crisis.

100_3353.JPG


This overreaction does nothing to fight terrorism, but goes a long way in striking fear into the local citizenry. Violent crime in this country is in decline, so there is no statistical reason to warrant the arms build up.

images


I agree about the bureaucracy choking us, I believe it is all related.
A great price to pay to be protected, raises an interesting question, are all these lose of freedoms, and greater government powers worth our so called protection ???

JB
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #96  
JB4310, I submit that we are not really any more protected from most real threats than we ever were. We spent much more money and gave up much more liberty at a high cost but haven't really added much security or real protection.
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #97  
They are definitely turning into military type organizations, with the encouragement of the Federal government. Only time will tell if that is a bad thing or not.
Small Ohio town's PD, even the uniforms are OD green :confused2: ...


A great price to pay to be protected, raises an interesting question, are all these lose of freedoms, and greater government powers worth our so called protection ???

JB

The Feds power has grown but the local LE's power really has not. I do not know how the Feds are militarizing local LE.

One of the photos are officers about to practice a building entry. Those tactics are a direct reaction to active shooters like at Columbine and other incidents. TEAMS of officers have to make entry. Going in by oneself is a good way to die. These tactics are really nothing new. LE has been doing similar things for DECADES prior to 9/11 but they have learned their lessons, usually at the cost in blood, and tweeked tactics and procedures for given circumstances.

If there was an active shooter in a building would YOU want to go in by yourself or with a team of officers? Would YOU want the best equipment you could get to deal with someone executing who ever they see? If YOU were one of the people hiding under a desk, in a closet or a cabinet would you want the officer trying to save YOUR life to have what they need?

Look at the SWAT TV show from the 70s. Gawd that show is funny and scary from today's perspective. Compare that TV show, which was trying to show SWAT in a positive light, to today's teams. A local city last lost an officer to a gun fight years ago. Today, a SWAT team would do what that dead officer was doing and another officer has not died as a result.

Just because someone is wearing OD does not mean the are the military. LE certainly can be considered a para military organizations and there is nothing wrong with it either. LE NEEDS discipline and organization and being based on the military is a good thing.

Later,
Dan
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #98  
JB4310, I submit that we are not really any more protected from most real threats than we ever were. We spent much more money and gave up much more liberty at a high cost but haven't really added much security or real protection.

Exactly, a huge over reaction, and we definitely did not get our moneys worth.
I'm sure there have been some serious benefits, especially in the high tech arena of anti terrorism. But for a large part, it equated to not much more than loss of freedoms.

The Feds power has grown but the local LE's power really has not. I do not know how the Feds are militarizing local LE.

One of the photos are officers about to practice a building entry. Those tactics are a direct reaction to active shooters like at Columbine and other incidents. TEAMS of officers have to make entry. Going in by oneself is a good way to die. These tactics are really nothing new. LE has been doing similar things for DECADES prior to 9/11 but they have learned their lessons, usually at the cost in blood, and tweeked tactics and procedures for given circumstances.

If there was an active shooter in a building would YOU want to go in by yourself or with a team of officers? Would YOU want the best equipment you could get to deal with someone executing who ever they see? If YOU were one of the people hiding under a desk, in a closet or a cabinet would you want the officer trying to save YOUR life to have what they need?

Look at the SWAT TV show from the 70s. Gawd that show is funny and scary from today's perspective. Compare that TV show, which was trying to show SWAT in a positive light, to today's teams. A local city last lost an officer to a gun fight years ago. Today, a SWAT team would do what that dead officer was doing and another officer has not died as a result.

Just because someone is wearing OD does not mean the are the military. LE certainly can be considered a para military organizations and there is nothing wrong with it either. LE NEEDS discipline and organization and being based on the military is a good thing.

Later,
Dan

I know you like to read :)
Cato Handbook for Congress: The Expanding Federal Police Power

Sure, it's hard to argue that someone should not be protected while performing public service. But like I mentioned, since violent crime has been in decline for years, what has changed?? Attitude ??

JB
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #99  
Several days ago I read a news story about the billions of dollars worth of military style firearms Homeland Security has given to local Law Enforcement across the nation...very troubling if you ask me...and yes it looks like our local law enforcement is being militarized...pretty slick way to get around the prohibition of the US military being used domestically.

Are we all just a bunch of frogs sitting in warm water....? Will we jump out and make them stop before the water boils and it is too late....? Only time will tell.
 
   / Ever Felt Threatened Enough That A Pistol Was Needed? #100  
The Feds power has grown but the local LE's power really has not. I do not know how the Feds are militarizing local LE.

One of the photos are officers about to practice a building entry. Those tactics are a direct reaction to active shooters like at Columbine and other incidents. TEAMS of officers have to make entry. Going in by oneself is a good way to die. These tactics are really nothing new. LE has been doing similar things for DECADES prior to 9/11 but they have learned their lessons, usually at the cost in blood, and tweeked tactics and procedures for given circumstances.

If there was an active shooter in a building would YOU want to go in by yourself or with a team of officers? Would YOU want the best equipment you could get to deal with someone executing who ever they see? If YOU were one of the people hiding under a desk, in a closet or a cabinet would you want the officer trying to save YOUR life to have what they need?

Look at the SWAT TV show from the 70s. Gawd that show is funny and scary from today's perspective. Compare that TV show, which was trying to show SWAT in a positive light, to today's teams. A local city last lost an officer to a gun fight years ago. Today, a SWAT team would do what that dead officer was doing and another officer has not died as a result.

Just because someone is wearing OD does not mean the are the military. LE certainly can be considered a para military organizations and there is nothing wrong with it either. LE NEEDS discipline and organization and being based on the military is a good thing.

Later,
Dan

I know of a small PD in Texas that is over run right now with business burglaries, home burglaries, car burglaries, armed robberies of convenience stores, muggings in parking lots at malls and stores, thefts every where. It's getting close to Christmas, after all. They can't get a handle on it to save their life.

But they have a SWAT van. And they have a fully equipped SWAT team. Both of which they have never needed and in all likelihood never will, really, need. Doesn't mean they won't find an excuse to use it though.

Some student went around the college campus putting up pieces of paper warning of a shooting on campus that was to happen the next day. The local PD mobilized the SWAT team and SWAT van. Turned out, the warnings were put up by a female student who had a test coming up in a class the next day she was not prepared to take and wanted to get classes cancelled.
.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2012 MACK GU713 DUMP TRUCK (A51406)
2012 MACK GU713...
WHITE CI-7 DRAW WORKS POWERED BY TWIN (60 SERIES) DETROIT 14.0L ENGINES (A50854)
WHITE CI-7 DRAW...
2003 Big Tex 10PI 16ft. T/A Pipe Top Utility Trailer (A49461)
2003 Big Tex 10PI...
Hyster H155XL Forklift (A48837)
Hyster H155XL...
2025 REDEDLIFT CPD25-XD4 FORKLIFT (A51222)
2025 REDEDLIFT...
2013 FORD F-750 (A50854)
2013 FORD F-750...
 
Top