EV owners of today and tomorrow

[LouNY]

So, you conclude based on the Equinox EV that all EVs will behave the same. That must be true because all ICE behave the same in the cold. Not!

I haven't had much time at 10°F in my Tesla Model Y but I don't expect it to be nearly as bad as you describe. What I find on days which are roughly 32°F that the first 10 miles consume a lot of power (no matter shore preconditioning) then it tapers down to "normal".

OK, I can narrow it down a bit more for you if needed;
The Equinox has an 85 Kwh battery so charged to 85% would be approximately 72.25 Kwh available.
Now to put a good kicker in it I would never plan a trip that would end with less then 20% battery in reserve, just like I would never go under a quarter tank in a gas/diesel vehicle. All it would take would be getting stuck, waiting for a stuck vehicle to get cleared of the road or an accident or detour to eat up the reserve. I am certainly not going to rely on someone else to deliver me fuel of any type to keep myself safe.
We were doing about 1.7 to 1.9 miles per kwh.
So a small 17 Kwh reserve from the 72.25 Kwh leaves 55.25 Kwh to travel with, or if I charged to 100% which would be 85 Kwh minus 17 kwh gives a max of 68 Kwh to travel with.
Or a range of 115.6 to 129.2 miles on clean dry roads.
The 1.7 to 1.9 miles per Kwh was cold and dry, no snow or slush to drag and require more hp to move through, during a bad storm with the wipers and defroster on high would most likely end up with an even shorter range.
So with those numbers I most certainly will not contemplate a trip of over 100 miles in the winter.
Now if you have a larger battery your numbers could be better, this is the advertised range.

The Chevrolet Equinox EV has an estimated range of up to 319 miles for front-wheel drive versions and around 280 miles for all-wheel drive version.

Ours is the awd version but looking at those numbers I see that we will be well under half the advertised range.

Yes, there are people that will push those numbers, they are also the ones crying and moaning about the lack of charging stations and how it's everyone else's fault that they ran out of "fuel" on the road.

 

[LouNY]

So, you conclude based on the Equinox EV that all EVs will behave the same. That must be true because all ICE behave the same in the cold. Not!

I haven't had much time at 10°F in my Tesla Model Y but I don't expect it to be nearly as bad as you describe. What I find on days which are roughly 32°F that the first 10 miles consume a lot of power (no matter shore preconditioning) then it tapers down to "normal".

In the fall weather when we bought the Equinox with temps ranging from 32F to 44F the car would do 2.9 to 3.6 miles per Kwh. So a considerable difference.

Now I can be a bit snarky also, you are more then welcome to drive that super duper extraordinary Tesla up here and show me how much better it is. If you are right I would admit it and buy you a cup of coffee. I doubt that I'll see that.

 

[Grumpycat]

Sure, BUT, had he concluded with a recommendation for EV’s with his Equinox experience, you surely would have given his otherwise exact same post…a thumbs up

Not at all. You don’t follow my postings else you would know I consider Tesla is in a completely different league than any other EV.

Everyone else half-assed their EV product lines. “This EV thing is easy! Just buy a motor, buy a battery, done!”

 

[Grumpycat]

I stated many of those same cold weather concerns last year, and was shot down as if I was exaggerating myths.....interesting that I was actually right. Definitely not a car for me here in Canada where it has been minus 5 F for last week. ( and winter just started)

On what do you base your concerns? You have an EV or you read the lazy media?

Do you keep logbooks of fuel consumption of your ICE vehicles to document their higher winter fuel consumption? My Subaru Outback got 26 MPG at 70 MPH below 40°F, 32 MPG with the A/C running above 70°F. I do keep logbooks, the Subaru’s decreased MPG was greater than most, but all have some loss. Not just winter blend gasoline because I have driven summer gasoline in the cold.

 

[Grumpycat]

it’s hard to like good posts with valid points, when every one comes with a snarky comment or insult.

Sorry but sometimes a little snark is necessary to wake sleeping brain cells.

It takes an active imagination to associate laptop, cellphone, and ICE starter batteries with EV batteries. There are similarities on the surface but still have great differences. Takes a deliberate act to ignore the differences.

How about a similar association between diesel and gasoline ICE? Or tractor engines to truck engines? Or tractor transmissions to truck transmissions?

 

[Grumpycat]

The 1.7 to 1.9 miles per Kwh was cold and dry, no snow or slush to drag and require more hp to move through, during a bad storm with the wipers and defroster on high would most likely end up with an even shorter range.

So you are still guessing?

An idling EV in traffic is surprisingly stingy, even with the heater running.

So with those numbers I most certainly will not contemplate a trip of over 100 miles in the winter.
Now if you have a larger battery your numbers could be better, this is the advertised range.

The Chevrolet Equinox EV has an estimated range of up to 319 miles for front-wheel drive versions and around 280 miles for all-wheel drive version.

Ours is the awd version but looking at those numbers I see that we will be well under half the advertised range.

I have said many times the purpose of a bigger EV battery is not the range one can get from full to empty that ICE-trained marketing executives feed you. The point is to be able to partially charge faster. To add 100 miles to a battery with 50 miles. As the SOC increases the charge rate is decreased to protect the battery. The decrease is less from 50-150 for a 319 mile battery than a 250 mile battery, the 319 adds 100 miles faster.

Have also stated many times, The Gas Station Model Does Not Work For EVs. Fill then run to 1/4 tank, repeat, does not work.

 

[ponytug]

Ask the ones that drive to Las Vegas from s. Cali in the summer and traffic stops on the baker grade at 120° + ....

No different in my book than the many who drive the same route without adequate fuel in ICEs. We have deaths on that route every summer. Just because it looks like a nice interstate freeway doesn't mean anything about safety. Up north, we have folks freezing to death in snow storms, and in between folks who drive into flooded roads and die.

All vehicles have range issues, on and off road, in weather, and in good conditions. I think that like anything, know your limits, and your vehicle limits.

OK, I can narrow it down a bit more for you if needed;
The Equinox has an 85 Kwh battery so charged to 85% would be approximately 72.25 Kwh available.
Now to put a good kicker in it I would never plan a trip that would end with less then 20% battery in reserve, just like I would never go under a quarter tank in a gas/diesel vehicle. All it would take would be getting stuck, waiting for a stuck vehicle to get cleared of the road or an accident or detour to eat up the reserve. I am certainly not going to rely on someone else to deliver me fuel of any type to keep myself safe.
We were doing about 1.7 to 1.9 miles per kwh.
So a small 17 Kwh reserve from the 72.25 Kwh leaves 55.25 Kwh to travel with, or if I charged to 100% which would be 85 Kwh minus 17 kwh gives a max of 68 Kwh to travel with.
Or a range of 115.6 to 129.2 miles on clean dry roads.
The 1.7 to 1.9 miles per Kwh was cold and dry, no snow or slush to drag and require more hp to move through, during a bad storm with the wipers and defroster on high would most likely end up with an even shorter range.
So with those numbers I most certainly will not contemplate a trip of over 100 miles in the winter.
Now if you have a larger battery your numbers could be better, this is the advertised range.

The Chevrolet Equinox EV has an estimated range of up to 319 miles for front-wheel drive versions and around 280 miles for all-wheel drive version.

Ours is the awd version but looking at those numbers I see that we will be well under half the advertised range.

Yes, there are people that will push those numbers, they are also the ones crying and moaning about the lack of charging stations and how it's everyone else's fault that they ran out of "fuel" on the road.

Thanks for your real world data.

Various EV magazines have covered the range estimates from EV manufacturers, versus actual use, and one manufacturer, that I know of, has been sued several ways for exaggerating the range.

Personally, I think that car manufacturers, and especially US car manufacturers have gotten away with "specifications" that aren't real for decades, e.g. HP tests on engines without installed parasitic accessories. It is not right in my book and I wish it weren't the case, but it is reality. Contrast this with regulations across the pond wherein specifications have legal liability for not being accurate.

Personally after our Chevy EV decided to only run the heating when it feels like it, and won't shift driving modes after the first mile, I'm not buying a GM vehicle again, in any flavor. We had factory assembly issues on that vehicle as well, but any manufacturer can have that. The non-consensual and illegal sale of GM customer data and driving histories doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, either.

I expect that as our ICE vehicles wear out, we will replace most of our ICEs with EVs. While I think that the kinks in EVs are being worked out, we still see lots of kinks in them, at least for our driving patterns, so we are in no rush.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Portuguese Farmer]

No different in my book than the many who drive the same route without adequate fuel in ICEs. We have deaths on that route every summer. Just because it looks like a nice interstate freeway doesn't mean anything about safety. Up north, we have folks freezing to death in snow storms, and in between folks who drive into flooded roads and die.

All vehicles have range issues, on and off road, in weather, and in good conditions. I think that like anything, know your limits, and your vehicle limits.


Thanks for your real world data.

Various EV magazines have covered the range estimates from EV manufacturers, versus actual use, and one manufacturer, that I know of, has been sued several ways for exaggerating the range.

Personally, I think that car manufacturers, and especially US car manufacturers have gotten away with "specifications" that aren't real for decades, e.g. HP tests on engines without installed parasitic accessories. It is not right in my book and I wish it weren't the case, but it is reality. Contrast this with regulations across the pond wherein specifications have legal liability for not being accurate.

Personally after our Chevy EV decided to only run the heating when it feels like it, and won't shift driving modes after the first mile, I'm not buying a GM vehicle again, in any flavor. We had factory assembly issues on that vehicle as well, but any manufacturer can have that. The non-consensual and illegal sale of GM customer data and driving histories doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies, either.

I expect that as our ICE vehicles wear out, we will replace most of our ICEs with EVs. While I think that the kinks in EVs are being worked out, we still see lots of kinks in them, at least for our driving patterns, so we are in no rush.

All the best,

Peter

You missed my point....

 

[wawajake]

On what do you base your concerns? You have an EV or you read the lazy media?

Do you keep logbooks of fuel consumption of your ICE vehicles to document their higher winter fuel consumption? My Subaru Outback got 26 MPG at 70 MPH below 40°F, 32 MPG with the A/C running above 70°F. I do keep logbooks, the Subaru’s decreased MPG was greater than most, but all have some loss. Not just winter blend gasoline because I have driven summer gasoline in the cold.

Boy some things never change, I missed a month and a half of commenting on TBN ( my wife of 47 yrs , died suddenly in November) .....now I did miss how the Flat earth thread closed ....always interesting though !

 

[shooterdon]

Boy some things never change, I missed a month and a half of commenting on TBN ( my wife of 47 yrs , died suddenly in November) .....now I did miss how the Flat earth thread closed ....always interesting though !

Sorry for your loss.