Ethanol free gas?

[NoTrespassing]

At a 20% premium I will need to get about 7 mpg better to break even considering an average of 37 mpg with E10. I will need to get 44 mpg with ethanol free gas. So far it looks promising, I'm getting much better mileage than I ever have in the past. The only question is how much better. If I come close, say 42 or 43 mpg I will probably continue avoiding ethanol. At that mpg I can avoid filling the car mid-week.

Kevin

 

[KiotiKowboy]

For me - Cost and MPG are secondary considerations in the decision to use ethanol or not. If I was worried about those, I wouldn't own a 2500 HD. My criteria are performance and keeping the fuel systems clean.

Everything I own, from weed-eaters to vehicles, is run on Non-Eth. There are sometimes exceptions made when traveling and I just can't find real gas.

 

[NoTrespassing]

For me - Cost and MPG are secondary considerations in the decision to use ethanol or not. If I was worried about those, I wouldn't own a 2500 HD. My criteria are performance and keeping the fuel systems clean.

Everything I own, from weed-eaters to vehicles, is run on Non-Eth. There are sometimes exceptions made when traveling and I just can't find real gas.

Yea, our motivations for fuel choice are polar opposites. I've run over 6,000 gallons of E10 through my little 1.6 liter engine without a problem. For me it's mostly about cost but I also like the idea of avoiding subsidized E10.

Kevin

 

[3930dave]

At a 20% premium I will need to get about 7 mpg better to break even considering an average of 37 mpg with E10. I will need to get 44 mpg with ethanol free gas. So far it looks promising, I'm getting much better mileage than I ever have in the past. The only question is how much better. If I come close, say 42 or 43 mpg I will probably continue avoiding ethanol. At that mpg I can avoid filling the car mid-week.

Kevin

There is also another aspect to consider, if you keep a vehicle long-term..... electric-fuel pump wear. Even modern fuel pumps show higher failure rates, just pushing from E10 to E15. Obviously, E85 pumps (in-tank) should behave better, but I'm talking about the rest of the road-fleet.

Some pumps aren't that expensive, but if you are paying for an entire sender unit w. pump, AND paying somebody to install it, the $ can add up.

Rgds, D.

 

[ericm979]

^^^^
Rather than decrease our dependency on foreign oil, I believe that it's supposed to make the engines burn cleaner and reduce air pollution, like MTBE before.
.

MTBE and Ethanol both made carbureted and early fuel injected engines run a little leaner. Since those engines often ran too rich, that reduced unburnt hydrocarbon pollution. The kind that makes very visible smog, like the what you see in pictures of LA in the '50s or '60s where the air is brown. MTBE contained oxygen; ethanol requires more oxygen per unit of fuel, which has the same effect.

But with the advent of EFI and O2 sensors, gas engines run at stoichiometric or even leaner much of the time. And they adjust on the fly to meet the parameters programmed in. With ethanol in the gas they just add fuel to compensate. That's why you see a small decrease in mileage with E10. The engines run the same (which is good otherwise there'd be a lot of holed pistons).

Since there is only a small number of older carbureted or primitive FI vehicles still on the road, ethanol in gasoline does little for emissions. The US produces a lot of fuel these days. We don't need to make ethanol to reach fuel independence; due to fracking we have a surplus. So that's not a reason for ethanol either. But the corn and ethanol producer lobbies have a lot of power. The federal mandate for ethanol has become a giveaway to those corporations.

While I don't always agree with the details of emissions regulations, I can see with my own eyes how they have made the air cleaner in the area I grew up even as population and driving increased. As a result I'm generally in favor of them. But the ethanol mandate should have been retired since it no longer serves a purpose other than to line politically powerful people's pockets.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

I've always thought it was just a marvelous idea to burn our food supply.

 

[bigtiller]

I've always thought it was just a marvelous idea to burn our food supply.

The corn that gets processed into ethanol, and the corn that humans eat are not the same plant.

 

[goeduck]

The corn that gets processed into ethanol, and the corn that humans eat are not the same plant.

But corn humans eat could be grown in the ground ethanol corn is grown. Or another crop for that matter.

 

[bigtiller]

That's growing another crop, not "burning our food supply".

 

[3Ts]

That's growing another crop, not "burning our food supply".

If you are taking land that grows edible crops out of production to grow non-edible ethanol crops, yeah, you're burning your food.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

If you are taking land that grows edible crops out of production to grow non-edible ethanol crops, yeah, you're burning your food.

And - no matter what else - it is shxtty gas and it's unnecessary.

 

[bigtiller]

If you are taking land that grows edible crops out of production to grow non-edible ethanol crops, yeah, you're burning your food.

That's growing another crop, not "burning our food supply".

 

[Liquidsilver]

And - no matter what else - it is shxtty gas and it's unnecessary.

Thoroughly agree with that, but yes it's not burning food supply... it's using tillable land to reduce the supply of an over-supplied commodity. Corn farmers, technology and land are so amazingly efficient, they produce so well, they've made their own product less valuable. Sucks that supply and demand shoots 'em right in the foot.

Then the gov't finds a way to artificially increase demand... causing a whole array of side effects they choose to ignore.

What I hate about E10 is, I get a crappy product forced on me. If I had a choice at every pump, I wouldn't complain, but it's illegal for stations to sell straight unleaded in my county and the neighboring county. And there is NO environmental benefit... even if you argue for less flourocarbons from E10, it causes more pollution to make it and take it to market. I have to drive 80miles to get E-free gasoline.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The corn that gets processed into ethanol, and the corn that humans eat are not the same plant.

Not exactly true...

Field corn is made into all kinds of things humans eat, like corn syrup ect

SR

 

[check]

And....... I live in a 289 year old house that is covered (inside and out) with lead paint.
I am obviously doomed to die!
Sure hope my IQ doesn't reach zero before I get there.

Too late. You are already fried!

 

[Grumpycat]

The corn that gets processed into ethanol, and the corn that humans eat are not the same plant.

Oh? What seed do I order to grow ethanol?

There is yellow corn, and white corn, both are used for human food. Its just that the prettiest corn is used to serve humans who will see the kernels. Less pretty is ground into corn meal for human and pet food, to make corn syrup and other human food products. The uglier stuff is used for cattle and ethanol. Depending on demand ethanol producers will buy the more expensive prettier corn. There is no doubt ethanol consumes corn that would have been used to feed poorer countries.

 

[NoTrespassing]

So, I finished off the first tank of non-ethanol gas in the 2008 Hyundai Accent and the little blue car seemed to like its very first taste of the good stuff. I managed to get slightly over 40 mpg with a little mixed city driving. I'm sure there was still ethanol in the tank after the first fill. This tank I plan to do an even higher percentage of highway driving and see what I can get. I paid $3.14/gal. this time at Caseys.

Interestingly, I drove by another Caseys about 15 miles from where I bought the pure gas and I don't think that one carried it. Their pumps only had one hose unlike the Caseys that carried the non-ethanol.

Kevin

 

[DieselnHooters]

What I hate about E10 is, I get a crappy product forced on me. If I had a choice at every pump, I wouldn't complain, but it's illegal for stations to sell straight unleaded in my county and the neighboring county. And there is NO environmental benefit... even if you argue for less flourocarbons from E10, it causes more pollution to make it and take it to market. I have to drive 80miles to get E-free gasoline.

I dont remember the exact number but I do recall oil companies here in Canada are required by law to have something like 80-90% of their sale volume in Ethanol gas hence why E free pumps are few and far between.

I am only guessing but there may be some similar regulations in the US.

 

[Grumpycat]

So, I finished off the first tank of non-ethanol gas in the 2008 Hyundai Accent and the little blue car seemed to like its very first taste of the good stuff. I managed to get slightly over 40 mpg with a little mixed city driving. I'm sure there was still ethanol in the tank after the first fill. This tank I plan to do an even higher percentage of highway driving and see what I can get. I paid $3.14/gal. this time at Caseys.

When comparing MPG you need about 5 tanks to get the old out and get a good average. And that means you need a logbook of what your car was doing before you changed fuel source so as to know what it was doing.

The MPG display on the dash is commonly called a Fool Computer because it lies and will make a fool of you. Is nice for a quick approximation but there is nothing like a logbook with miles divided by gallons. I can't explain these variations. Rode different roads but similar speeds and 90% of the time I buy gasoline from exactly the same pump and hose, 99% from the same station.

 

[goeduck]

Oh? What seed do I order to grow ethanol?

Tax Money


Taxpayers have spent billions of dollars over the last 30 years subsidizing the production of corn ethanol. I would like to get mine back and have corn growers stand on their own two feet. Let the market decide if it is viable.