Estate Planning and Trust Accounts

[Sigarms]

Update… letter sent.

Please update when you can. I may have to resort to this as well as now the credit union can't explain where they transfered $500 from the payment on the IRA they hold (they give me an account number, no where to be found online and can't account for it).

Their (credit union) communication process I find very confusing. You talk to someone on the phone, they tell you one thing, they then send you off an email, but the email comes from a general company email address, and if you need to follow up, the email goes to anyone and you never deal with the same person twice on the same issue. They NEVER give you a name or phone number via email.

Part of the problem I found out by accident is they (credit union) use salesforce, a CSM softwware program (when I logged in on a weekend, system was down and it stated "salesforce" which confused me at first as I thought I was on the website). I worked for a company who used it (salesforce), and it sucks IMO. I ask my old company when I was there why they used it (the complaints were adding up from everyone using it), and the response was because a multi billion dollar HVAC manaufacturer uses it and it's spoke so highly of, it HAS to be good. Then when I'm at the same manufacturer who uses it, everyone who uses it tells me it sucks (off the record) LOL Doesn't totally suck, but you have to use it for something it's really not intended for on the technical side, not sales side.

I asked the girl on the phone at the credit union how she likes salesforce, and she was surprised I knew about it. Long story short, she agreed with my assesment of the software.

Just give me a place where people know my name by sight and I can talk to a person in front of them LOL That said, I guess that's still no guarantee given the creation of this thread.

 

[ultrarunner]

As luck would have it no direct response to my letter to the top guy at US Bank and my letter to the BBB reply is my complaint has been forwarded to US Bank.

Friday at 4 I get a call from the branch asking me to come in Monday to have me sign signature cards and I should be all set…

I said not possible as I have business trip to Washington and not available for 2 weeks… the representative said she really wants to resolve ASAP… maybe someone from corp reached out?

 

[Sigarms]

As luck would have it no direct response to my letter to the top guy at US Bank and my letter to the BBB reply is my complaint has been forwarded to US Bank.

Friday at 4 I get a call from the branch asking me to come in Monday to have me sign signature cards and I should be all set…

I said not possible as I have business trip to Washington and not available for 2 weeks… the representative said she really wants to resolve ASAP… maybe someone from corp reached out?

I've been through the BBB with a auto mechanic I had an issue with.

Bank could be jumping on top of it due the BBB complaint, as the BBB will generally forward your complaint the same day, and wait from a response from the business they are getting the complaint about.

Although the BBB really can't do anything to what the business will or will not do, it does get documented with the written complaint (I look at them as a third party referee).

End of the day, I don't think the BBB had any leverage with the business owner I was dealing with, but small claims court lit a fire under his butt to get the issue I had resolved (I don't normally complain, only twice I ever felt wronged by a business to take action, as I always pay my bills).

Actually, the business I had to deal with never responded back to the BBB complaint LOL

Let face it, sometimes consumers can be irrational and only have their own side of the story, and in their mind, can do no wrong because they are the customer! LOL

 

[California]

Credit unions are great for customer service but they can get jerked around by the bank where they actually deposit your funds.

Golden1 CU moved my IRA from one bank as trustee, to another bank, and reported that to IRS as cashed out. A couple of years later I got a notice of audit from IRS, undeclared income, bring in all your income and cost records. I had bought and renovated a 5-unit rental including tons of small receipts for replacement air conditioners, paint, light bulbs, toilet valve kits, etc with the usual shoebox accounting - toss everything in a shoebox then at the end of the year, just eyeball this mess and estimate the precise cost to claim against income.

I scrambled for two weeks to draft credible cost records with receipts stapled behind summary sheets listing the details, everything rounded to the nearest dollar.

The IRS auditor re-totalled each bundle of receipts on her desk calculator, everything tested ok.

She complemented me on how everything matched to the penny. I said sure, I'm a professional auditor too, state level, I verify claimed construction costs over $1m. But I usually just sample categories that look reasonable, in my case here, renovation expense. Ok, now you tell me, why did I get called in for audit? ??? I then learned that their records showed my IRA was cashed out without reporting that on my 1040. No!!! She said prove that and IRS will close the investigation.

Golden1 Couldn't explain it either, beyond describing the movement of IRA accounts to a different trustee bank. I got letter from them that finally closed the audit.

Come to think of it Golden1 jerked me around again years later. With interest rates falling I went to re-finance our home at a lower rate, no cash out. They sent me a document in the form of a TIFF image. But I've never heard of a two-page TIF. There were terms on the concealed page that cost me my nonrefundable $400 application fee, after I found a lower rate from a different lender.

 

[ultrarunner]

Updates...

After months it looks like US Bank has figured it out... No less than 8 hours branch time with multiple employees involved and a lot of back and forth with corp legal to un-freeze two modest Trust Accounts mom was in charge of and I had to bring in documents going back 25 years because bank could not find any of the copies made.

I'm concerned as this now is all digitized just ripe for data breach but if the hard copies have been lost twice I guess no different?

Contrast this with Credit Union and in and out in less than 20 minutes with no appointment... easy peasy with the same 2 notarized docs and my ID that was presented to Bank.

All I can say is we collectively are in trouble if this is the norm for Big Banks and they really like me at that branch and very well known over 30 years...

Never did get any response to my written requests to Corp and to CEO and Better Business Bureau other than acknowledgement of receipt...

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

 

[ultrarunner]

Topic Drift... Taxes filings for Estates issues

Dad used a book keeper enrolled agent for business and personal for nearly 40 years and never a tax problem... IRS issues if they came up were easily clarified by him and he had the smallest office in the business district.

When he retired and the same year dad passed we went to CPA and Estate Lawyer/CPA

The last 5 years lots of mistakes and they keep happening.

One resulted in a full blown audit at no cost to us because the tax lawyer screwed up significantly and IRS was not happy... worked out good for us.

This year tax law office for estate screwed up again and humbly apologized but left me scrambling to pay taxes IRS said underpaid due to numbers being transposed.

My own CPA missed information on a K1 that had me scrambling to come up with 30k... yes 30k!

I reached out to my brother and he said what??? I should be getting a very small refund and not owe or need additional estimated payment.

As an Engineer I like certainty but tax law over several States leaves me dumber than a rock and dependant on tax professional.

If it wouldn't be for my brother who is not a lawyer or CPA but the person who hires and reviews their work I would have been stuck... he said I owe him a beer which is less than the $380 the tax lawyer charged for a few questions at the time I picked up estate returns...

Are you guys Tax Savvy and catch filing mistakes?

 

[Sigarms]

Never did get any response to my written requests to Corp and to CEO and Better Business Bureau other than acknowledgement of receipt...

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

BBB should send off your complaint to the business. From what I remember, business has x amount of days to respond to BBB, no repsponse, should get a "F" for the business on their website listing. At least my local BBB was pretty good about keeping me in the loop (lack of response from business).

 

[2manyrocks]

Could be time to switch tax professionals, too.

 

[ultrarunner]

3 different ones or replace 3 with one.

Mom and Dad's are very simple but I pay $1200 for all 3 to make sure it's right but now two significant mistakes in 5 years plus $420 hour to ask questions

Mine has taken a life of its own... a partnership I'm in liquidated all California holdings and exchanged funds into property in 38 states...

This is an accounting nightmare... I'm just a working stiff... with tax returns of hundreds of pages filing income tax in states I have never set foot in.

$200 to file in Oklahoma with the result a $8 debit card refund coming my way.

$200 to file in Arizona with $487 due including penalties and interest because by the time the numbers get to me they are late.

The same for about a dozen other states... thankfully some like Washington and Louisiana have no filing requirements or the threshold is high enough no filing required.

Job security for paper pushers...

I imagine businesses leaving California along with entities cashing out and deploying capital to other states makes this a growth industry?

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know...

All from owning a 1/3 of 1 percent of a California shopping center that was sold and the majority of partners insisting no more California holdings/investments.

The capital leaving California is staggering when you dig deep.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'd rather deal with one than three unless there was some very good reason to have three. For one thing, the amount of business for one professional would presumably be more so they'd have more incentive to value your client relationship.

CPAs in my experience are more efficient at tax return compliance than attorneys. CPA firms will tend to have up and coming accountants at lesser pay scales than attorneys who have law school debts to pay and I suppose salaries have to reflect that. CPAs are also more focused on what it is instead of attorneys who tend to be more focused handling contested issues.

You might weigh the anticipated value of continuing to be in that partnership versus the accounting nightmare that comes from it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yes… to all of the above.

I can sell to any partner willing to buy at the price we agree on.

I can also sell outside with majority partner approval.

Generally it has been lucrative transferring via exchange residential rentals as far back as the 90’s for commercial… no one calling at midnight about a toilet or no hot water, etc.

The major partners decided not another penny invested in California and to divest all California holdings… and that is how I now have tax reporting where required in 38 States… the guy that sweeps the main hospital entrance each morning as the homeless move on.

Tax Lawyer/CPA has most of the business but has gotten quite pricey the last few years.

At one time in the 80’s I did it all myself but that was 40 years ago.

Hundreds of pages just to file boggles the mind especially when the cost to file exceeds taxes or refunds due and the more complex with a greater pool of entities increases the likelyhood of errors because even being right comes with a cost to defend.

 

[2manyrocks]

Is there a way to piggyback with the other partners insofar as tax return compliance is concerned? It wouldn't seem very efficient for each partner to have to find their own tax professionals to deal with returns in 38 states.

 

[ultrarunner]

Good question...

I'm about as small as can be... most of the partners are net worth hundreds of millions of dollars... and even higher.

My brother was senior vice president for many years and wanted to consolidate our joint holdings early on and was able to 1031 our joint properties into development projects under his oversight.

He credits me dragging him into the field back when he was a struggling college student...

The major partners use or have big 8 names for their holdings.

Should we do the same I asked and he said I couldn't afford 10k minimum or $900 hour consults...

First project was public storage and then Department of Energy research facility followed by everything from hotels, shopping centers to amusement parks...

The one rule was no residential rentals of any kind held.

Starting in California and then expanding to Washington was easy because I file California and Washington has no personal income tax filing...

 

[California]

a partnership I'm in liquidated all California holdings and exchanged funds into property in 38 states...

This is an accounting nightmare... I'm just a working stiff... with tax returns of hundreds of pages filing income tax in states I have never set foot in.

If that were me I would sell right now.

Life is too short to be pulling your hair out forever trying to maximize the last dollar of income.

If you lose a little on the sale then just consider that the cost of buying your sanity back.


This was the advice I got from an excellent estate attorney who helped me through negotiations with Sis on the disputed price to buy out her half of this inherited orchard. Best advice I've ever received from anyone. I paid Sis what her expensive attorney's appraiser said, not the average of two local appraisers (paid from estate funds) as Dad had instructed to us to do. Per the estate-paid estate attorney I was working with, this averted a lifetime of gutwrenching endless family war.

This experienced attorney had seen it all, in her career, and knew that money isn't as important as settling uncertainty that can be argued for the rest of your life, in closing an estate.

Sounds to me that similar advice is relevant, for getting beyond the suffering from those incompetent tax preparers figuring all those tax returns every year for that 38 state mess.

 

[ultrarunner]

Good advice... I'm in 38 states but only 9 require me to file.

Spoke to my brother just now and he said the plan is to consolidate and perhaps go public and if that happens my ownership would become shares of stock in a publicly held entity... just a line to add to my California return.

Your other point is spot on... I would like to buy mom's home from estate and brothers would like to sell... my opinion of value and thiers does not yet align...

They are both licensed Real Estate and said without listing it everyone is guessing... one brother has had some crazy overbids the last couple of years... like listing based on comps for 650k and final sales price 850k.

 

[2manyrocks]

If it took someone a day to prepare each state return, filing in 9 might yet be manageable, but 38....