Entry Level Welding Help

DaveInColorado · Mar 22, 2004

I 2nd the opinion that 110V wire feed welders have poor feeding. I used to think I could weld until I frequenly borrowed a friends 110V wire feed. Darn thing would only weld at one feed rate! Too slow and the speed varied, too fast and I couldn't figure out how to control it. I bought the AC/DC Lincoln from HD on a fire sale (!). It works pretty darn good for what I do. Someday I'll be able to weld small electrical conduit with it - but not yet. I need some carbon rods so I can practice brazing with it.

HERKYEC130 · Mar 23, 2004

So if a guy has a work shed and he has a 15 or 20 amp breaker from his house. What are his options? I would like to maybe try my hand at this welding game again. It's been a few years but it would be nice to fix the mower deck or other things that get banged up.
Is there not enough power to try making some attachments? Is the feed from the house too small to get into any kind of welding?
I was looking at the wirefed welders at Northern Tools, but it sounds like a waste of money.
All these questions and The perfect place to ask them /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks
Paul

Soundguy · Mar 23, 2004

If you have a 20 amp service on your 110 line at your shed.. you can run a small buzz box.. like the campbel hausfield I have.. It has up to a 70a output on 'high'. It has a switch on it for low or high.. and that determines what you need for feed line.. 15a service or 20a service. Low uses 1/16 rod, and high uses 5/64 rod.

Welding a lawn mower deck is well within the capability of this setup.

If your wiring is good.. and they used good sized wire to keep power loss low.. 20 amp will get you into a small welder.

Keep in mind that you won't be running a welder of an extension cord... unless it is a big huge beefy one..( like an airconditioner extension cord... ) and then.. I would only use the shortest possible... none of those orange household jobs...

The wire feed welders I saw are generally up 90a output on a 110 line.. using 20 a service. I don't have experience with any small wire welders.. so can't say how they may work.

Soundguy

slowrev · Mar 23, 2004

The cheap small wire welders are a lot of trouble in my opinion. Wire feed problems, short duty cycle, etc... but definately better than nothing. They will work ok for thin stuff, but I would not want to build a trailer or 3 point attachments with them, not enough penetration.... I still recommend looking for a used AC or AC/DC stick welder, and get an EL-Cheapo auto dark hood, even the cheap ones are great compared to the cheap fixed lens ones.
If you can find a deal on a used continuously variable output AC/DC stick welder of up to about 200 AMPs capacity it might be the only welder you will ever need. Unless of course you plan on doing sheet metal welding, then the wire feed or TIG ones are best. It is hard to come up with one welder that is the best for every application.

KAB · Mar 23, 2004

I have a small (110v) Miller mig welder. It either flux core or shielded gas. Many years ago when I ran a body shop we used this welder for close to a year because we were having problems with our larger (220v and much more expensive) welder. Using the flux core wire you can weld about 3/16 steel in a single pass thicker with multiple passes.

MIGS are easier to learn to weld with. Stick welding can do thicker easier.

I would go to your local welding shops and talk to them. They should be able to give good advice based on your needs.

All types of welding equipment have their pros and cons, define your needs and shop for one like shopping for a tractor, find a product that fits your needs, find a price that you like and make sure you can get service if needed.

Kurt

Soundguy · Mar 24, 2004

My comments were based on the guy saying he wanted to weld a lawnmower deck.. not build a trailer or 3pt implement.

If he wants to build a trailer.. he needs a 'real' welder.. and will pay a 'real' price.. no need to spend 500-2500 to just weld stuff like lawnmower decks though.. 100 on a cheap small stick welder is more that style..

Soundguy

DMAND · Mar 26, 2004

My son and I just finished the second of eight weeks of Community College "ARC Welding". It cost $60 plus $1.25 for insurance. Can't complain about the price. I believe that STICK WELDING is a great way to be introduced to welding. After 12 hours of classes I can weld. It is not alway pretty, but it holds and it can be ground down to a better appearance. Our instructor is willing to move us on to MIG and TIG after about four weeks. I am looking forward to learning a bit about those. My son has an old Lincoln AC stick welder (220-240) and a small (220-240) Century MIG welder.
He can weld but was not good enough to teach me so we are learning together. It is kind of fun going to school with your 36 year old son. I would definitely recomend the Community College night welding courses as a starting point. I would, also, recommend buying a helmet or mask with the instant darkening feature. It sure helps to be able to see how you are setting up before striking an arc. kind of like shooting in the dark with the older/cheaper constant dark helmets.

Inspector507 · Mar 26, 2004

The only classes I can find around here are at the Adult Education Center. That course runs $500 just for stick/arc October through late April 2 or 3 days nights a week. While I'm sure it's a great class, I can't justify that cost.

johnbilt · Mar 26, 2004

Hi

I prefer the MIG welders. I have a small 120V Mig w/gas unit for sheet metal, and I upgraded to a larger 250A model for larger material as I progressed in welding.

I think one of the 175A / 220V is a great compromise in dollars and size. The 220v units have much more flexibility due to the power increase.

No matter what you choose, I would recommend that you invest in an automatic helmet. I resisted this for several years as an unnecessary expense. I was quite wrong !! The ability to see exactly what is happening is crucial. I used to get setup, flip my helmet, and pull the trigger. I usually takes a moment to get oriented and start welding. Sometimes quite a bit of wire can feed during this initial moment !!

The auto helmet will greatly increase your learning curve with any type of welding. Have you ever tied your shoelaces with your eyes closed ?? You can do it, but it takes a little extra time.

One extra comment. An inexpensive solution is one of the Lincoln AC/DC stick welders. The DC version sells at Home Depot for around $299 or $399. They penetrate well and with some practice you can make a decent weld. You have to chip slag and they make gads of smoke, but they are simple, bulletproof, and inexpensive. No sheet metal work though !

John

jimg · Mar 26, 2004

Usually the state tech school runs classes that are very affordable. Do you have a tech school close by? Sometimes they wont have a welding department but will teach welding as part of another trade (like HVAC, building or automotive repair).

R3BOERS · Apr 1, 2004

IM A SUPERVISOR IN A STEEL SHOP . 25YRS IN STEEL FABRICATION. TRY A LINCOLN AC 225 STICK WELDER. IF YOU CAN FIND IT USE ROD MADE BY MG. ROD IS CALLED AC 500. ITS DESIGNED FOR AC WELDING. DIA. 3/32. IT WILL PRODUCE A 50000 # TENSILE STRENGHT WELD WHICH IS WHAT MOST CARBON STEEL IS FOUNDED TO FROM THE MILL. NEVER HOLD YOUR MELTING ROD MORE THAN 3/32 INCH FROM YYOUR MOLTEN PUDLE. EXSESSIVE ARC LENGTH INCREASES AMPERAGE AND MAKES WELD HARD TO CONTROL. WELDER NEW IS ABOUT 300$. IF YOU GO WITH A WIRE WELDER MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS PRE CLEAAN AREAS TO BE WELDE WITH A GRINDER THIS WILL INCREAS PENETRATION.

fractal · Apr 13, 2004

( Just looking for a startin place here ... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )

Safety first.

Did you know that the arc from an arc welder can sun burn you?

Did you know that your basic shirt does little to stop uv rays?

Did you know those little white spots going up the front of your body are where the buttons were on your shirt when the rest of you is sunburned?

A class is a good idea. I was given a sears ac/dc welder for my birthday and a 1 hour lesson in its use. That lesson saved me from learning the hard way about protective equipment. I am looking around for a class. Unfortunately, the closest place that has one is a 45 minute drive, so I am learning from the school of hard knocks. And, as has been said about beginning welders before ... I didn't know pigeons could perch sideways either..

AlanB · Apr 15, 2004

A guy around me ran an add in the shopper type newspaper looking for welding instruction. I answered and he never followed up, but the point would be that I suspect there are others like me out there.

If I could have someone that would be willing to come in and work in the shop to help me out in the evenings weekends etc somwhat, I would be willing to teach them to weld and let them use the equipment for practice.

Try a little add in the newspaper and see what you stumble in too.

I have taken welding classes in High School, Vo- tech, State Universities, Lincoln Welding, and some quick classes with different field reps. It mostly depends on the way you click with the instructor.

If you have the chance, I highly reccomend attending a Lincoln School, my dad and I did as a vacation one year and it was excellent. I have also heard that Miller has excellent training facilities as well.

I do not know how others that have no welding / fabricating capabilities make it in business. It would cost a small fortune to have someone else do the stuff that I do for the wifes business.

B7510 · Apr 15, 2004

Doug,

I strarted down this road about a year ago. I learded how to stick weld back in the 70's but then didn't touch it for 30 years. I saved up my pennies till I thought I had enough and started to look. THe more I asked, the more it came around to "Get as much wire feed welder as you can stretch for."

I ended up w/ a 22V Hobart, same unit as a Miller except you have four voltage settings rather than a continuous adjustable. It will handle up to 1/4" in a single pass and can go down to the thinner materials when needed. So far I have been very pleased. It is a lot easier to use than stick. I only get to play with the welder a few times a month so I don't have a lot of time to "practice, practice, practice,..."

To me welding is like drywall work. I know what it looks like when its done right, but I just don't do it enough to get good at it. In my opinion, using a wire feed welder reduces the amount of practice you need to do to get an acceptable result.

JimR · Apr 23, 2004

I learned how to weld in trade school auto mechanics back in 1968. I bought a Lincoln 225 welder in 1976 and it is still running fine. You can find these for under $100.00 used. I now have moved up to a wire feed for welding thin metal, stainless and aluminum using gas. I only use gas and not a core wire now. The welds are much cleaner with very little slag to clean off. You would be amazed what these little machines can do. Or should I say what you can do with one of these machines. The small Lincoln welder with a cart and 2 tanks will run you around $600.00 if I remember correctly. I bought my welder and cart with the gas setup from Home Depot. Nobody could touch their price. I bought both my tanks from a local supplier. Do not waste your money renting tanks. I also own my own acetylene and oxygen tank. I rented them for years and got smart real quick one day. Practice welding horizontally. When you learn to do a nice weld, move to vertical welds. The ultimate is overhead. Wear old clothes, boots, long sleeves and gloves. One piece of slag in a loafer will have you doing a hot foot dance. Practice makes perfect and it will not happen overnight. Adjust your heat settings and try different welds till you find the right settings. There is a good book out called Modern Welding Technologies.

sticky · May 19, 2004

A forum that has many knowledgeable people willing to help is http://www.weldingweb.com I am a beginner but have learned allot about equipment, welding, and fabricating from the site

MMM · May 19, 2004

If you're farm welding, don't bother with the $100/100amp junk. Get an AC/DC stick machine you can learn on. AC is fustrating at best for beginners to out-o-pos weld with and is limited on rod choices. Cause of many a nver-learned-to-weld -good/ it-ain't-purty-but-it'll-hold excuse. With DC you have a more stable arc and can reverse polarity putting more heat on rod than work for thin metal. As for MIG-will you be in a garage out of the wind for every repair? Do you want a yearly gas contract? And flux core MIG is less effective than gas . Stick can out-manouver wire feeds in tight spots also. You'll spend as much or more for a MIG of sane amp anyway. TSC had a Hobart 235/160 AC/DC %20 duty cycle for $369 a little while back. Haven't tried it, but sounds like a good deal. The Sears AC/DC is pretty good, but they can't keep em in stock.

EastTexFrank · May 20, 2004

Since my original post 'way back up there concerning my little 100 amp, Lincoln MIG welder, I've picked up a Hobart 235 AC stick machine. I've only played with it a few times but I seem to run a much prettier bead with it and you can lay down a whole lot of metal in a hurry. An AC/DC machine might be better and easier but I think for the type of welding that I do I've just about got it all covered with the 2 machines.

fractal · May 21, 2004

( Cause of many a nver-learned-to-weld -good/ it-ain't-purty-but-it'll-hold excuse. )
HAHAHAHA. I resemble that remark.

I was given an ac/dc welder for my birthday last year. My step father gave me an hour lesson in how to use a stick welder and my brother gave me a half hour lesson in how to use an oxy / aceteline welder. I choose an ac/dc welder for "farm welding" as you called it. I picked up some scraps to practice on, but wouldn't you know it. The bracket holding the FEL joystick broke on me last week. So, no time like the present, out comes the angle grinder to clean it up a bit, a piece of 1/8 inch 6013, clamp the piece in place, set welder to 80 amps and try to spot weld one end of the bracket. Hmm, not getting any penetration, try 120 amps.

End result ... nver-learned-to-weld -good/ it-ain't-purty-but-it'll-hold. Or as my step father told me his instructor said after he ran his first bead ... "my, I never knew pigeons could perch sideways"..

The only thing worse than my weld was the weld on the other end of the bracket /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

MMM · May 22, 2004

With 1/8th rod at 120a and no penetration something is wrong. That's hot. Use straight polarity . Not sure which position repair weld is(vert, *** oh), but try beveling (V) crack to give weld puddle something to cling to-a bed to lay in, as my old teacher explained it.