Entry Level Welding Help

[DAP]

I can do a lot of things, but to my dismay, welding isn't one of them.

Now I DO know welding as a topic is as subjective as picking a tractor, but I'll bet it's not a cheap endeavor (not even considering stock).

So, assuming one obtains some descent instruction, where is a good place to start regarding acquiring a welding setup. I'm looking mainly to be able to make small repairs or set up small components. I read another TBNer who's using a Sears Welder that was in the 200 dollar range.

Just looking for a startin place here ... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Soundguy]

Up until november last year.. I was a non-welder.. For my birthday.. the wife got me an el-cheapo 70amp stick welder from wallmart.. campbell hausfield brand. Welds with 5/64 and 1/16 rods. was 89 or 99 bucks.. Came with cheapy chipping hammer/wire brush combo.. and cheapy welding shield you have to hold with one hand.

For 19 bucks i bought the tractor supply economy welding combo.. came with a pair of gloves, a decent chipping hammer and a 'real' welding helmet that sits on your head with flip up visor... lets you keep both hands on the torch handle.. great for beginners. I also recomend you finding a brand of rod called 'sure strike' I sware you could run a bead on a piece of cardboard they are so easy to weld with... easy to strike a spark.. and they don't stick. Probably there is a trade off with the material strength of the steel.. etc.. but great to build your confidence and learn with.

You can also usually get a cheapy wire/flux welder from harbor freight and/or wallmart in the 200-300 range.. probably 90 amp.. using flux core wire.. with the option to add a gas bottle to it and become 'MIG'.

Best I can say.. is practice. Smaller welder kits weld smaller stock.. like 3/16. 5/16, and 1/4 When you get better and lear some technique.. you can weld bigger stuff with smaller welder fairly decently.. like 3/8.. by deeply 'V' cutting the parts.. and welding the stock in multiple passes to stitch them together. Gusseting also helps add strength to welds.. that is welding side braces to the object in question.

Have a wire brush you like , and get a cheapy 19$ angle grinder.. that angle grinder will be your friend.. clean up your ground connection.. and then use it to clean up your welds. A famous quote is.. 'that the worse you are at welding.. the better you have to be at grinding..'

I've since used the big lincoln sticp welder at work.. 250 ac/dc and made a real super heavy duty set of middle ramps for my john deer B tricycle tractor... practice helped.

I also just started playing with the 225a lincoln mig at work...wow... I gotta get a wire flux or mig welder... nice not changing rods every 30 seconds of weld time... and no slag to chip off.

My idea was to start small to see if I liked it.. so I only invested 99 bucks in the first machine... My next one will be a better model.

And yes.. welding is an art and a science.... and there are many opinions on it.

Soundguy

 

[slowrev]

You might try looking for a used AC or AC/DC welder. I have a couple older AC welders and they fill most of my needs. Of course a wire feed or Tig would be nice for Aluminum or for thin stuff. I also bought an el-cheapo (69.95) autodark helmet at Harbor freight and really love it. I do recommend learning stick welding first and then move on to TIG and or MIG.

 

[MadReferee]

You could start with an inexpensive wire feed welder. However, you will soon find that it will not give you adequate penetration on steel much over 1/8" thick.

That being the case, invest in a decent MIG setup. With it you can use either flux core wire or solid wire with C25 gas. If you have only 110v get a Hobart Handler 135. If you got 220v available move up to a Hobart or Miller 175. The 135 will run about $450, the 175 about $600, and if you choose Miller over Hobart add $100. Both Miller and Hobart are made side-by-side by the same company.

If you want to get informed opinions and expert advise, go to the Hobart welders forum.

Hobart/Miller welding forum

 

[Bird]

Doug, I'd suggest before you buy anything to visit a real welding supply company in your area. Sears, and lots of other stores, sell some welding equipment, and if you know what you're doing, that may be the best place to buy, but I think you'll be very lucky if you find anyone in those stores who is really a welder and can direct you to the proper equipment for what you want to do. Welding classes at places like commmunity colleges is certainly a good idea, but not an absolute necessity.

Many years ago, I bought my first little gas rig from a welding supply company, took it home, read the books, tried it out, and decided it wouldn't weld, so back to the store. Now had it come from a department store, I might have just gotten my money back; however, at the welding supply store, the salesman took me out in their shop and laid down as pretty a bead as I've ever seen a welder do. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif So much for wouldn't work. I felt like a fool, but he taught me to use that little rig. That would not have happened at Sears or other such stores.

 

[ljh2]

DAP,
I'm no welding genius, actually havn't struck an arc in over 10 years, but I'll chime in anyway. For an inexpensive unit to get started with a lot of folks look at the little flux-core units. Those units have some significant limitations. It depends on the kind of repairs that you plan on, but if you plan to work on tractor implements or that type of stuff, you want to be sure you can make a STRONG weld on the type of material that you are welding. You don't want to trust your LIFE to a weak weld.

It takes a bit more practice to lay a bead with a stick welder, but a decent AC buzzbox can be had for under $300 for a NEW one, and probably for less if you find a used one in your local pennysaver/shopper. If it has only been used for homeowner/hobbyist work, chances are it will be in pretty good shape. A new AC/DC moves up to the $400+ range, but buys you the DC which makes it easier to weld thin materials and a little easier to lay down a smooth bead.

To buy a MIG welder that can penetrate into thick steel in a single pass, you are looking at some serious $$$. Like Soundguy said, there are some ways to build up a strong penetrating weld by beveling your joints, which can allow you to get by with a little less amperage.

My thoughts are:
1. Get a welder that operates on 240 volts. (better penetration)
2. Buy GOOD safety gear (helmet, gloves, etc...)
3. If starting on a budget, look for a used AC/DC stick welder. (cheap, durable, decent penetration)
4. Stick to a name brand (Lincoln, Miller, Hobart)
5. Do a search for welding on TBN, there are tons of other threads about it here.
6. Find someone with experience to give you a few lessons. Check out your local community college or vocational school for a class.
7. Check out some books. There are lots of good books on the subject.
8. Practice, practice, practice... BEFORE you do a weld that you have to trust your life to.

9. Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[EastTexFrank]

'that the worse you are at welding.. the better you have to be at grinding..'

Isn't that the truth.

I don't even know why I'm replyng to this because I'm a terrible welder ... I'm successful at it but it's not pretty. To me, welding is like using 3000 degree superglue.
After getting advice from every welder I knew, I ended up getting a small 110v Lincoln Weld-Pak 100 MIG that runs .035 flux core wire. It's great for small fixits, small projects and thin metal - less than 3/16", it's relatively easy to use and you can haul it anywhere without worrying about 240v availability. Having said that, I am replacing the rusted out deck on a 5' bush hog just now and dearly want a bigger machine with more welding time and capacity. I think I may have to get a stick welder for the bigger jobs but that raises the problem of getting 240v to the worksite as I can't get the the bigger jobs into the shop. Ah well, I suppose I'll have to haul the generator along to run it.

The only advice I can give you about welding is "practice, practice, practice". You WILL get better and oh yes, get yourself that grinder - you'll need it.

I don't mean to Shanghai this thread but would you experienced welders recommend getting a 240v stick or a bigger MIG machine.

 

[slowrev]

I would get a 240V stick. Cheaper and you can use your smaller rig for the light stuff. DC is nicer, but AC will work ok unless you are doing a lot of vertical or overhead welding.

 

[DAP]

With sickening consistency Bird, you're right on the mark. I sit on a train 10 hours a week. Only a good book can keep me from those fitful train naps.

Question now is .. which book! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Unfortunately, books usually tell you a little about everything or everything about something. I'm open for suggestions on books too. At least I'll know what I don't know and won't buy what I don't want. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[DAP]

Thanks Chris ... I'll look into those ranges of machines and get aquainted with this flux core stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif