engine seized or hydraulic lock?

Peter Will · Dec 4, 2015

Hi,
engine seized or hydraulic lock?
I changed oil on my l2650 gst and ran for 10 minutes to check for leaks then shut it off.A few days later I tryed to start it and nothing.Starter was engaging with a solid click and buzz it was trying.tryed to turn motor over by turning crankshaft shaft and its stuck can't move it at all.The motor has 2050hrs on it and ran very good.Is there a way to tell if it could be something else outher than a siezed motor?Could the filter have been bad or pump lost it prime somehow.Filter was from Kubota.Any advice before I start to remove motor.I cannot believe this has happened just before the snow comes.

Avondale · Dec 4, 2015

I would start with the easy stuff first, pull plug and try to spin over motor. IF it was hydro-locked, it should spit out when engine cranks so have rag handy.

Tx Jim · Dec 4, 2015

I suppose battery has 13+ volts??

BigBoyToys · Dec 4, 2015

As Avondale stated remove the plugs and see if you can turn it by hand. When you changed the oil did you check the oil level before starting it?

Avondale · Dec 4, 2015

IF your tractor is a diesel, if so disregard my comment about plugs , crack open injectors and try to roll over engine to see if liquid escapes when pistons rise to TDC.

ovrszd · Dec 4, 2015

I'm a K.I.S.S. principle guy. I'd check electrical system before disassembling anything mechanical on the engine. Being a GST tractor can't you also put transmission in high gear and rock tractor back/forth to see if it's truly locked up?? I'm thinking it's a starting system problem. Engines don't lock up without some extreme noise/action prior to lockup. And I can think of no reason for it to be hydro-locked. Let us know what you find.

CCWKen · Dec 4, 2015

Isn't that a diesel? What "plugs" are you guys talking about?

Added: A blown head gasket can lock an engine. Check the oil and see if it's full of coolant.

BigBoyToys · Dec 4, 2015

CCWKen said:
Isn't that a diesel? What "plugs" are you guys talking about?

I should have been more clear and said "glow" plugs.

I can't imagine the engine being "hydro-locked" after a simple oil change. Usually happens when the tractor is tipped over on it's side. But to rule it out, removing the glow plugs should allow the engine to be turned over by hand. If it's "seized" then you won't be able to turn it by hand with the glow plugs out.

Grandad4 · Dec 4, 2015

Anything is possible of course, but if my recent vintage tractor wouldn't crank while the starter clicked and buzzed, my first thoughts would be electrical (i.e. battery/starter,etc.) or the clutch not releasing, not a seized engine, particularly if the engine had previously been OK. You have a not-too-old tractor whose engine is built to run many thousands of hours. Unless it was run without oil or fished out of Quabbin Reservoir recently, that's very unlikely.

Welcome to TBN! By the way, you're not far from my dad's ancestral home in Hubbardston.

RalphVa · Dec 4, 2015

Start by checking the battery, starter and solenoid system. Really doubt it's your engine. After checking the starting electrics and okay, remove or just loosen the glow plugs and see it it'll turn over.

Ralph

s219 · Dec 4, 2015

How did you add oil to the engine?? They all have multiple fill ports, and normally you should be using the lower (often harder to reach) fill port. I believe there are cases where if you add oil through the top port (valve cover) it can pool there and it's possible that it eventually trickled into a cylinder after the tractor was shut off (maybe through a worn valve guide for example). That sounds crazy, but I am pretty sure I remember hearing about that exact issue here on TBN.

So yeah, I'd pull a glow plug or injector, whatever is easier, from each cylinder, and see if that allows the engine to crank by hand and shoot some oil out of the hole. Then check the oil level and top off the engine with one of the lower fill ports that more directly sends oil down to the sump pan. Make sure it turns over by hand, then turn over with starter (with plugs/injectors still removed). Button everything up and try to start the motor. Good luck!

s219 · Dec 4, 2015

By the way, I am not liking the idea of electrical problems mainly because you said the engine will not crank over by hand. That is a significant clue.

BigBoyToys · Dec 4, 2015

s219 said:
How did you add oil to the engine?? They all have multiple fill ports, and normally you should be using the lower (often harder to reach) fill port.

Curious as to what "lower" fill port there is for the engine.
I recently changed mine and added oil through the "Oil Fill Port" on the valve cover. That's how it's shown in the Owners Manual and the WSM.

s219 · Dec 4, 2015

These engines have multiple uses/applications, and they will almost always have more than one fill port to accommodate different installations and orientations. Usually one of them is called out as the preferred place to add oil.

As far as I know, all are OK, however if you use the one on the top of the engine you have to fill more slowly, since it can easily pool or overflow. If that happens, oil can flow into the breather and get into the intake and engine -or- if valve guides are worn or there is another path, the oil can get down into the engine.

CCWKen · Dec 4, 2015

Yeah, I remember that discussion too. I think it was on a new or newer tractor too. As I recall, it tanked the engine and the owner was having problems getting it fixed by the dealer. I think it had something to do with the oil not flowing through the head fast enough and back flowing through some pollution control port into the intake or some such weird nonsense. The owner blamed the design and dealer blamed the owner. I don't remember the outcome.

Avondale · Dec 4, 2015

The oil fill discussion was also on the Kioti board, same problem with two fill ports.

ovrszd · Dec 4, 2015

I've tried to avoid responding to this..... But I'm a failure.......

If your engine holds the oil in the valve cover to the point that it seeps past your valve guides and hydro locks,,,, how does it survive running for several hours at a time without pumping and pooling all the oil in the valve cover and starving the oil pump and your crank bearings?????

Sorry,,,,, just had to ask...... :confused3:

4570Man · Dec 4, 2015

How did you try to crank the engine by hand. They are pretty hard to turn over.

ovrszd · Dec 4, 2015

4570Man said:
How did you try to crank the engine by hand. They are pretty hard to turn over.

Yep, thats why I suggested putting the tractor in high gear and rocking it. Takes a pretty long wrench on the crankshaft nut to turn an engine.

Since we've heard no followup I'm guessing problem has been solved.

CCWKen · Dec 4, 2015

ovrszd said:
I've tried to avoid responding to this..... But I'm a failure.......

If your engine holds the oil in the valve cover to the point that it seeps past your valve guides and hydro locks,,,, how does it survive running for several hours at a time without pumping and pooling all the oil in the valve cover and starving the oil pump and your crank bearings?????

Because many engines don't have valve stem seals or they use "umbrella cups" which only protects against oil splashed off the rocker arm. The valve guide may only extend 1/2" above the head so flooding the area with oil causes the valve guides to be submerged in oil. Under normal running conditions, oil just dribbles off the rocker arms in small amounts and runs down the push rod holes or oil drains.

And then, there's the case(s) mentioned above where oil may go directly to the intake ports because of some strange design.

My old JD420C has a baffle in the filler tube. If you try to add oil too fast, it back flows all over the top of the engine.