Engine Overhaul Kama 554

[dfkrug]

I'd still like to know about using gasket sealer on the head gasket, or not.

I have never had any new head gaskets that called for sealant of any kind.
I am not saying none require it.

My latest Diesel head gaskets were constructed of two very thin laminations
of steel, held together with a few rivets. What are yours made of?

Looks great, Rob!

 

[Bob Rooks]

I'd still like to know about using gasket sealer on the head gasket, or not.

First: Is there a copper or aluminum crush ring that sits in the block counterbore for the liner?

Back in the day it was mandatory to soak asbestos/copper laminated gaskets in water overnight, wipe dry and brush on a coat of gasket shellac (Indian Head brand) before installation. This allowed the asbestos to "equalize" with the crush of torquing. If the gasket you are installing is a copper/composite (asbestos is gone) laminate it will not hurt to use the gasket shellac, especially if the castings are particularly porous. Convoluted stamped steel single plate gaskets usually will already have a coat of shellac or similar sealer already on them.

 

[SPIKER]

Like bob said I agree with that, there are some other products on the market as well, some are spray on, (think spray paint) that is a slip lubricant material that lets the gasket move slightly as the compression squeezes it down. I'm familiar with the type used when installing aluminum heads onto cars which is seem like a aluminum colored spray paint to me...

I'm not sure about diesels as I have never done heads on one of them. also not sure about Lube for the threads if that is different from gas engines, some require a thread sealant on them as they pass into/through water/oil passages on different cars. It has always been worth while to me to buy engine specific books when I'm repairing one of the cars/trucks as there are a lot of small details that can get lost easily when you dont do this type of work daily... I've done maybe 10 engine head jobs and 2 rebuilds & all of them on mild compression cars. I can say one thing I dont think i would want to try & lift out the crank on one of these (one on my 400cdi ford was bad enough & I crushed a finger nail with the 460 ford crank. ...)

Mark

 

[3RRL]

My new gasket is the same as the old one.
It has steel crush rings that seal onto the liners. There is also one small copper liner on one corner of the gasket. The rest is a fibrous gasket material?
-In the first photo you can see the new gasket on the right side of my desk. (Zoom in maybe?)
-Second photo is of the engine block where you can see impressions of the old gasket before I cleaned it.
-Third photo is of the head before cleaning. It still has the old head gasket on it. Parts of it had to be scraped off, but it did come off mostly in one piece.
Maybe you can tell me from those photos below?

On Edit after Mark's reply:
The head bolts are to be reinstalled with a little oil on the threads per the manual.

 

[Bob Rooks]

OK, the liner is held in the counterbore with the built in crushable alloy fire ring (correct term) on the head gasket which is indexed on each liner by the liner's projection above the deck. It appears that your gasket is not the laminated type but a rigid composite type similar to "Victacore". The copper eyelet is the larger main coolant passage at the rear of the block to assist in more even flow at the rear which is furthest away from the jacket water pump.
The surfaces on the new gasket will require some type of wetting or bonding agent because they are not coated or "filmed". The spray-on type sealer will work (not the HY-Tack adhesive type), or the brushable Indian Head gasket shellac will work too.

Here is a good substitute for the Indian Head brand.

 

[3RRL]

OK Bob,
Thanks very much for the reply!
I made more progress today and will post some photos later this evening or tomorrow morning.

 

[schmalts]

Wish i saw this topic earlier to answer a few questions about the valve measurements.
One thing a lot of guys do not think about when checking valve installed specs is what is called the installed spring height. When a valve pounds into the seat the stem comes out the other side farther. Geometry is not as much of a concern as the spring installed height is because grinding the tip of the valve will not change the installed spring height. Checking installed spring height is done by installing the valve and spring retainer without the spring and measuring the distance from the bottom of the retainer to the head surface to get what the spring length would be when the valve is closed. This is important because the longer that measurement is the lower your spring pressure will be at closed position, keeping in mind the spring pressure is not linear and the closed valve position is the lowest and not too far longer it drops off fast. The adjustment is easy, you add shims between the spring and head, or in worst case, you have new seats installed and start over. But when installing new seats and grinding the angles, the amount you grind down is to get the installed spring height set. once spring height is set the other two angles are put in to get the seat width and position on the valve set but the installed height will no longer change once the main contact angle is cut.
Like I said, spring height is often ignored but very much a starting point for a proper valve job.
The measurement they were giving you was not so much for installed height as it was for piston to valve clearence. Kind of odd they had you check that though, i wouldnt think this would be that close of a clearence engine to worry about that. Did they give an installed height dimension?

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

I'd still like to know about using gasket sealer on the head gasket, or not.

QUOTE]



How ya doing Rob.......... hope all you finger nails are still the same color ?.

I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other....... so that makes me limited to what I can see in a picture.

If your new head gasket feels slick to touch ??? .... kinda like silicone slick. Then I would not use a sealer on the head gasket.


Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[Bob Rooks]

If your new head gasket feels slick to touch ??? .... kinda like silicone slick. Then I would not use a sealer on the head gasket.
Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

I concur. If the gasket feels as Ronald implies then it is pre-coated.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Like I said, spring height is often ignored but very much a starting point for a proper valve job.

That is very true. It's been a long time since I've done any valve work on small engines and it completly slipped my mind. I always started with .030" spring shims. And technically, you should also check the valve springs for correct height and resiliency with a torque wrench and spring test stand.
This is why, with all of the different qualifiers involved, it is worth my time to just take the head to a good machine shop and let them do their job too and leave me to do all of the R&R work (which can be just as technical and critical).