Engine oil pumping into hydrolics

[Horseshoe#2]

Ya idk very confusing. 1 put over a gallon and a half of oil in it this morning was about over half full on dip stick. Ran for 30 minutes no oil on dip stick trans so full I have got to drain it down . It is to the top of dip stick hole. No leaks clutch works great.

 

[Horseshoe#2]

Unplugged the hdro. Still pumping the oil out. Could it go through the steering column somehow? Leaking a lot around steering column. Idk just hoping for something simple

 

[Horseshoe#2]

Unplugged the hdro. Still pumping the oil out. Could it go through the steering column somehow? Leaking a lot around steering column. Idk just hoping for something simple

 

[sd455dan]

I would eliminate the rear crankshaft oil seal as a possibility.

You can remove the steering assist bracket on the left side of the bell housing to adjust and inspect the 2 stage clutch. It should be dry in there.
If that rear seal is puking oil that bad the inside of the bell housing it would have to be so full of oil that it could get by the trans input shaft or possibly the lower shaft. I find this very, very hard to believe though.
There is also another possibility if you were just losing oil- and that is the crankshaft connecting rod bolt access cover plate gasket on the left side of the cast oil pan. This would not fill the trans rear axle with engine oil though it would just leak profusely while running.

ps. Can you post pics of the engine from both sides/ maybe someone has modified it in some way with a vent hose drain or some other way.

The Shanghai 495A engines vent any crankcase pressure /blow by through the oil fil cap that is on the right side of the engine front cover. The cap should have a wire mesh inside and vent freely to atmosphere

2nd ps . there were a few different power steering options on these tractors, mine has the power assist which works like a massey Ferguson has manual steering with an assist ram on the left side of the engine oil is in a small tank under the rear of the fuel tank left side.

The Full power steering unit had a pan that may be part of the engine oil pan??

so maybe that is it

I only saw a drawing of this system though.

 

[Bob Rooks]

You should have an inspection cover on the side of the clutch compartment. Remove it and see if it's oily inside. That will reveal your next step.

 

[Horseshoe#2]

Thanks so much will pull the cover and check that and get pics as soon as I can and let you all know.

 

[kinglouie63]

I just bought a rhino 552 tractor. After running it for a short time it is pumping all the engine oil into the hydrolics tank in the rear. What could cause this ?

Engine oil can enter the hydraulic system via the hydraulic pump’s input shaft seal. The input shaft is common with the suction side of the hydraulic pump. Under higher flow situations the shaft seal is allowing oil into the pump. Normally the complaint is noise or foamy oil as the seal allows air by thus causing cavitation. In your case there must be enough oil at the seal to cause your problem. Good luck.

 

[Horseshoe#2]

Thank you

 

[Bob Rooks]

Engine oil can enter the hydraulic system via the hydraulic pump’s input shaft seal. The input shaft is common with the suction side of the hydraulic pump. Under higher flow situations the shaft seal is allowing oil into the pump. Normally the complaint is noise or foamy oil as the seal allows air by thus causing cavitation. In your case there must be enough oil at the seal to cause your problem. Good luck.

Your speculation is flawed because the timing gear case where the hydraulic pump is attached is only splash lubricated. There is no engine oil pressure against the pump shaft seal. The drive and driven gears share the ports equally in this style of pump.

 

[Bob Rooks]

What happens when pumps blow the shaft seal when deadheaded is that hydraulic pressure flows back between the gear ends and end housings. Sometimes if there is enough restriction the pump housing will fail open.

 

[piper184]

Does the transmission and hydraulics share the same fluid?
NO=engine oil can't get to the manual transmission unless someone did something wrong.
YES=same thing. A leaking hydraulic pump will leak fluid into the engine not the other way around unless someone did something wrong.

First thing I would do is get eyeballs on the inside of the bell housing. My bet it is dry. If not, you have a rear main seal or oil galley plug leaking.
Second, get the transmission fluid level down to the proper dipstick reading.
Change engine oil and filter. Put some kind of dye in the engine oil. Fluorescent dye will work with new or dirty oil but you need a black light to "see" it. Red or Blue dye can be had from CAT dealers. It will work best with clean engine oil. Run the engine for 30 minutes without driving the tractor, a high idle should work. Shut off and wait 5 minutes, check engine oil level. If oil level is fine run for another 30 and check again.
When you see engine oil drop significantly check the transmission fluid level. If it has risen, check that fluid for traces of your dye.

IF (BIG IF) you find engine oil in the transmission and the clutch housing is dry you will have to start tracing every hose and path you can find to figure out how that is happening.

What you have described so far indicates a closed path for engine oil to get to the transmission. As far as I know there is no such thing in a normal tractor setup with a dry clutch and manual transmission.

I would even go so far as to completely drain the transmission and run the engine experiment again with the drain to the trans open, just to see if you get engine oil running out. At that point maybe remove the top cover of the trans and watch for incoming oil.

This just really doesn't add up unless someone did something wrong.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Bob Rooks]

This is what I use to check for fluid migration and leaks. No need to change oils. Just add some to the engine oil and use the tractor for 20 minutes, then shine the light around the outside of the engine, inside the clutch compartment, and a specimen of the transmission oil. Preferably in dimly lit conditions.

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[blackvette]

This is why chinese stuff has no value. Not only does this stuff happen, but getting parts is virtually impossible,……i am sorry you spent money on this tractor. This is obviously why it was being sold. I would go back to the seller, with several large rowdy friends, drop off the tractor, and demand your money back.

 

[ruffdog]

Yeah...nothing could go wrong with that plan....

 

[Bob Rooks]

This is why chinese stuff has no value. Not only does this stuff happen, but getting parts is virtually impossible,……i am sorry you spent money on this tractor. This is obviously why it was being sold. I would go back to the seller, with several large rowdy friends, drop off the tractor, and demand your money back.

Please relate your personal experience with Chinese tractors to validate your comments, otherwise they mean nothing.

 

[Leejohn]

I would say his hyd filter or trans screen is stopped up and the hyd pump is sucking real hard and pulling oil from engine into the hyd system.

 

[piper184]

The OP said it wasn't going into the hydraulic system but going into the transmission.
Besides, the hydraulic pump input shaft isn't submersed in engine oil so that scenario is unlikely.
This is one that I would really like to see for myself. None of it seems logical unless someone did something wrong or there is some piece of information we are missing.

 

[Leejohn]

The OP said it wasn't going into the hydraulic system but going into the transmission.
Besides, the hydraulic pump input shaft isn't submersed in engine oil so that scenario is unlikely.
This is one that I would really like to see for myself. None of it seems logical unless someone did something wrong or there is some piece of information we are missing.

Yes I know the pump input shaft isn't submersed, but the timing, idle, cam, crank, and pump gears are throwing engine oil all over front of the pump. Also most tractors do use the same oil and true his might not. I'm just saying it's something to think about and maybe check. As said about the rear main seal leaking and getting into the trans I just can't buy that.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Yes I know the pump input shaft isn't submersed, but the timing, idle, cam, crank, and pump gears are throwing engine oil all over front of the pump. Also most tractors do use the same oil and true his might not. I'm just saying it's something to think about and maybe check. As said about the rear main seal leaking and getting into the trans I just can't buy that. I hope the OP uses the dye.

The small gear on the left drives the hydraulic pump via the big idler above it. It rotates at engine speed on a sleeve bearing. It has a stub shaft with a seal that connects to the pump shaft, so engine oil will not migrate to the hydraulics. Virtually impossible. Yeah, I know we're discussing the transmission.

 

[Leejohn]

The small gear on the left drives the hydraulic pump via the big idler above it. It rotates at engine speed on a sleeve bearing. It has a stub shaft with a seal that connects to the pump shaft, so engine oil will not migrate to the hydraulics. Virtually impossible. Yeah, I know we're discussing the transmission.

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Bob not saying you are not right. How can hyd oil get into engine from the hyd pump? This is going be interesting when we find out for sure.