electric vs mechanical trailer brakes

[swedish-fish]

I'm looking for a trailer to tow my small Yanmar 155D short distances (<5 miles) a few times a year. I've been considering a 5x12 or 5x14 utility/landscape trailer since I can come under the 3000lbs GVWR and the empty trailer weight is less than 1000 lbs so trailer brakes aren't necessary. I'd rather not get into electric brakes if I don't have too. My Ford Ranger is wired for a flat four already

Now, I've come across a used dual axle trailer that has mechanical brakes. The seller was describing a system where the tung has a master cylinder which applies the brakes when the tung is compressed when the tow vehicle is slowing down. That sounds pretty slick, but I hadn't seen anything written up about it when searching this forum. From what I've read people really like the dual axles even for a tractor as light as 1600 lbs. Is there a reason to stay away from this style of brake system? How does one back up a trailer with mechanical brakes?
I look forward to hearing the advice of those more experienced than I.

 

[SnowRidge]

Those are surge brakes. They are desirable when you have to back into water, especially salt water, which is hard on electric brakes. They are also used a lot by trailer rental places, since they don't have to worry about brake wiring or brake controllers.

They are somewhat of a problem on hills, as the brakes may drag on a long downgrade, which can result in brake fade, perhaps when you need them the most. They are also lagging brakes, not coming on until after you step on the brakes and the towing vehicle slows, except on the long downgrades, where they may be on all the way down.

Lagging brakes don't give as good a control as leading brakes, which are possible with electric brakes, and have more of a propensity to jacknife in a panic stop than electric brakes, but aren't nearly as likely to do so as no brakes. Hope that makes sense.

How do you back them up? Slowly!

I would much rather have surge brakes than no brakes.

 

[TobyH]

We used to use surge brakes on larger trucks in the early '90s before they were banned over a certain weight limit. Banned for a good reason. They were always applying themselves when backing up making it impossible to turn a trailer in dirt or snow. In a panic stop the trailer would start slamming back and forth as the brakes applied then released when the wheels locked up then apply again and so on.

I've never used surge brakes on a light duty trailer but with your setup it seems like the inherent problems would still be there just on a smaller scale. I haul my BX2200 with a loader and a backblade on a 14' single axle trailer with electric brakes pulled by an old '92 Explorer 2 door (very short wheelbase). Never had a problem stopping. I had a class III hitch installed with a 7 pin RV plug and prewired for a brake controller for around $250. I highly recommend changing that flat four out, getting a brake controller and haul happily ever after.

 

[radman1]

I personally don't like mechanical brakes for the above mentioned reasons. If the deal is good, brakes work properly and the tow vehicle doesn't have electric brakes, then go ahead and get it. They are certainly better than trailers with no brakes. Just don't plan on backing up a grade/hill because the will lock up. Have them adjusted properly.

 

[john_bud]

Well, I'll be the odd man out here! My 25' 7000# boat has surge brakes on the trailer, both axles and it is the fastest slowing trailer I own. The only down side is the slight slam when you take off as the tongue slides a bit before the trailer moves.

My experience may not be typical, but I have never had the situations they talked about. Then again, I kept them in good shape, adjusted correctly, greased bearings and turned drums. I could (and have often) stood on the truck's brakes and had the ABS popping, but the only response from the trailer was dead staight decelleration. In fact, the truck stops faster towing the boat than it does with no load.

I would ditch the electric brakes on my equipment hauler in a minute for surge brakes (but I'm too lazy and cheap to change something that works!).

jb

 

[swedish-fish]

Ahh... Surge brakes. Thank you.
Here's a link to the trailer I'm looking at. heavy duty trailer 12 foot CHEAP

Thanks for the replies. So, electric brakes with a controller installed is the way to go? [edit] John_bud - didn't see your reply... must have been typing] If I passed on this used trailer, I might go for a new 5x14 single axle utility trailer for $1200. Is that something I could have brakes installed on later? Fortunately it is pretty flat where I live and I might try without first. The kinds of places I would go is take it to church for our harvest party to pull a hayride. It's 2 miles away all 35 mph back roads and flat the whole way. If it was any closer, I'd drive it there.

 

[swedish-fish]

I guess the thing to do would be try it out...
I get my hitch from etrailer on tuesday.

 

[SnowRidge]

U-haul uses surge brakes. We rented the largest trailer they have, and it had surge brakes. The only real problem we had with it -- other than no tongue jack -- was backing up. It really, really did not want to do that. However, we prevailed.

 

[SnowRidge]

Ahh... Surge brakes. Thank you.
Here's a link to the trailer I'm looking at. heavy duty trailer 12 foot CHEAP

Thanks for the replies. So, electric brakes with a controller installed is the way to go? [edit] John_bud - didn't see your reply... must have been typing] If I passed on this used trailer, I might go for a new 5x14 single axle utility trailer for $1200. Is that something I could have brakes installed on later? Fortunately it is pretty flat where I live and I might try without first. The kinds of places I would go is take it to church for our harvest party to pull a hayride. It's 2 miles away all 35 mph back roads and flat the whole way. If it was any closer, I'd drive it there.

I'd buy the used trailer. For your needs it sounds good. I installed electric brakes on my single axle cargo trailer. I did it myself for about half what a dealer quoted. Make sure the axles are Dexter or something else that has brakes readily available.

Watch out for the gross weight rating on the brake less trailer. It may only be 3,000 lbs or less, using a 3,500 lb axle. Putting brakes on it would in theory raise that to the full 3,500 lbs, but it would still be stamped 3,000 or less by the manufacturer, and you probably would not be legal at 3,500 lbs. That's my situation with my cargo trailer.

Whatever you get, make sure the GVWR of the trailer is sufficient for the combined weight of your tractor, attachments you intend to load with it, and the trailer itself.

 

[Reg]

If the deal is good I suggest you buy it.
If you FREQUENTLY need to back it up UPHILL, e.g. up your driveway to park it, install a back-up lock-out solenoid valve (self explanatory name ?, actuated by your back-up lights, so you need to have that wire in your trailer connector, a 4 wire won't do).
If you have pushing/bumping on downgrades select a different spring weight for the coupler, Atwood and DICO's web sites probably list these.
Some surge brake couplers also have a small dampener (shock absorber) to reduce/eliminate the pushing/bumping oscillations.

Yep, they work well on boat trailers and I would PREFER them on my other trailers.

 

[MikeD74T]

Swedish-fish, I have one of each. Advantages/disadvantages to each.

Surge - Advantage -no vehicle adaptation required ( other than backup lockout described above). Brakes only stop the trailer, not towing vehicle. Shoes last a long time as braking is only as needed. Going down a hill they will only brake if the trailer is trying to push the towing vehicle & only apply enough to stop the push. May be undetectable unless you realize it's not pushing. I've never sensed overheating from push.
Disadvantage -on two occasions my surge brakes locked up enough on intermittant black ice to cause a jacknife. Luckily both times were on roads wide enough that no other traffic was involved. It's interesting to look in the driver's side mirror & see 20' of your own trailer across the adjacent lane.

Electric -Disadvantage -Requires wiring & controller. Requires driver to pay some attention to controller sensitivity. I've seen drivers dragging a trailer with locked up wheels because they didn't adjust after reducing trailer load. Tend toward higher shoe wear if you get used to letting the trailer stop the towing vehicle. This happens if you set sensitivity too high & rest your foot on the brake pedal enough to activate the brake lights on towing vehicle but also activate the trailer brakes. That's a bad habit that's easy to get into because it also confirms your trailer brakes are working which can become an expectation.
Advantage -adjustibility on the go for load & road conditions. Easy to use trailer brakes only to reduce sudden sway.

All in all I prefer electric for my own use. If I had employees or others using the trailer I'd go with surge & auto reverse lockout. Electric also makes it easier to not loan your trailer if the borrower's vehicle is not wired.

One common mistake with electric brakes is inadequate ground. I have a #12 ground wire from my battery thru trailer plug to trailer frame and brake magnet ground wires. MikeD74T

 

[TobyH]

That's not a bad deal for that trailer. Hmmm, Rochester....that's only 167 miles from me. If you're not using it a lot, go for it and run the surge brakes. If you get tired of the way they work or they need to be rebuilt, convert them to electric. You would have to buy new wheel hubs if you bought another trailer with no brakes. You may be able to just retrofit this trailer. If not, at least you have something to use until somebody get you one of those round tuits!

 

[OKnewguy]

I might be the other odd man out here, but I have a 5-6000 lb boat rig that works great! I could be mistaken, but I think that surge brakes have had mechanical lockouts built into the brakes for years. This is my second boat that has had them. You do not have to lock the system out or use any kind of solenoid. As soon as the drum starts to reverse there is a mechanical lock out that keeps the brakes from being applied.
As with all trailer stuff, what is probabbly the largest factor is proper maintenance. Keep your hubs in good shape and inspect your brakes for wear and proper adjustment. And whatch your tires for wear (especially checking), make sure you have a spare and lug nut wrench, and do not assume the vehicle jack will work with your trailer.
Stay safe, and happy towing.
Dave

 

[machmeter62]

Those are surge brakes. They are desirable when you have to back into water, especially salt water, which is hard on electric brakes. They are also used a lot by trailer rental places, since they don't have to worry about brake wiring or brake controllers.

They are somewhat of a problem on hills, as the brakes may drag on a long downgrade, which can result in brake fade, perhaps when you need them the most. They are also lagging brakes, not coming on until after you step on the brakes and the towing vehicle slows, except on the long downgrades, where they may be on all the way down.

Lagging brakes don't give as good a control as leading brakes, which are possible with electric brakes, and have more of a propensity to jacknife in a panic stop than electric brakes, but aren't nearly as likely to do so as no brakes. Hope that makes sense.

How do you back them up? Slowly!

I would much rather have surge brakes than no brakes.

Proper operating surge brakes, when backing up, are inactive with a solenoid that bypasses the braking action.

 

[swedish-fish]

Thanks for the helpful information. Here's an update.
I haven't bought a trailer yet, the seller said he'd get back to me with specifics of bed size, weight..etc. Still waiting. I was also hit with the reality of the visa bill this month and my wife doesn't see the need for a trailer right now (and she's probably right).

In the meantime I found an aluminum single axel trailer (no brakes) that I can rent for $25. Tonight I'll be towing the tractor 2 miles to church and using it and the trailer to pull a hayride. I'll be carefull and chain the tractor down well. I figure it'll give me some baseline for towing without brakes.

 

[Renze]

Europe is the cradle of surge brakes, inertia brakes, overrun brakes, or whatever you call them.

All trailers above 750 kg need brakes. surge brakes are allowed up to 3500 kg trailer GVW

On older systems of 20 years ago, there was a latch with which you could lock the hitch head, so you could back up with no problem.
Recent systems have axles with automatic reverse release mechanism.
As soon as the drum turns in opposed direction, the friction of the brake pad turns them 15 degrees with, and releases the force. a kind of inversed wedge.

About the jamming, applying full brake force, being pulled loose from the brakes, then again jam full brake, is impossible with the systems we use in Europe because they all have a shock absorber in the overrun device on which the hitch ballhead mounts.


From a European perspective, i dont see any benefits of either system. In Europe, electric brakes never catched on, because the system is (was ?) notoriously unreliable.
Neither electric or surge is perfect. Just with surge brakes you dont have compatibility problems, nor corroded contact problems.

surge brakes dont come even close to air brakes, but they are a very good substitute to electric brakes...

as said, this is from a European perspective, where surge brakes are as wide spread as electric is in the USA... maybe we just dont know any better.