E6011 rod for AC

oldnslo · Mar 9, 2011

Hi all, I just purchased 5 lbs of E6011 3/32 diameter and am having tremendous problems getting it to hold an arc. It wants to short out and stick. I have tried flat, vertical up, vertical down, with Vertical up being the least likely to stick but it still does.

Very difficult to strike arc also, wants to stick instantly.

I have a Lincoln 225 buzz box and have tried amp settings of 45, 60, 75 with very little change in this problem. Rod also seems to have an extreme amount of welding splatter Vs 1/8 diameter on the same material.

Flux is not flaking off nor does it appear to be powdery or cracked.

Rod was purchased from a local welding supply house.

Any suggestions or ideas what I am doing wrong besides being old, shakey and blind.

TIA

Roy

Shield Arc · Mar 9, 2011

A lot of talk about welding on AC lately. Only AC welding I do is aluminum Tig, so I thought I'd give it a try. I used Hobart's 335A 6011. Other than the difference in noise I didn't really see a whole lot of difference than on DC.

What brand of rod did you buy?

ramzee1 · Mar 9, 2011

They didn't give you 6010's by mistake? They act like that when used on AC.

SixHoeBob · Mar 9, 2011

I set the welder at 90 amps when I use 3/32. When the rod sticks tight it will quickly become completely bright orange, time for another rod. Drag the rod to start the arc as opposed to tapping it. For 1/8 inch 6011, I run 150 amps.

6sunset6 · Mar 9, 2011

I find it neccessary to keep the rod dry. We used to keep a light bulb on in the storage box. Or keep it in the house.
I have been using 1/8 rod like that and the same welder for 40 years.

JoelD · Mar 9, 2011

Try more amp

I find ac does stick more than dc could just be I stink at it but I find dc with 6011 much easier

Joel

rankrank1 · Mar 9, 2011

Welding with AC power is almost always more spattery than welding with DC power. Additionally, 6011 rod will be the most spattery of the common rods. 6011 also has different flux characteristics - flux usually thinner and can be harder to chip off since so little of it.

6011 also takes more skill to use as the arc gap distance must be maintained by the operator and the rod manipulations are different - harder for a newbie or an unskilled welder like me to master. 6013 or 7014 on the other hand you can just pretty much drag the rod with it contacting the piece and the flux will form a cone that will define the arc gap distance - much easier for an unskilled welder like me to use.

If you keep having trouble - try turning the welder up to 90 amps or even 105 and try it.

Chilly807 · Mar 9, 2011

I think you need more current, 75 amps isn't much for a 3/32 rod. I set mine at 90-100 amps DC, AC should be the same I think. Much below that and it wants to stick.

Sean

Mark @ Everlast · Mar 10, 2011

Chilly, 80-90 amps is pretty high. You should be able to maintain arc stability with a 3/32 6011 around 60 amps.

Gary Fowler · Mar 10, 2011

I am just guessing but i would say the folks having to run more than 100-125 amps for a 1/8 need to check their machine. 150 amps would easily burn a 5/32. I never liked 3/32 60xx rods, they get hot too quick and do spatter much more than 1/8. When the rod starts to turn black, it is almost impossible for even a skilled welder to strike an arc with it. The amps should be 60-90 with 90 being on the extremely hot side. You should be able to hold a good arc with them on 60 amps on really thin material

Johnp33 · Mar 10, 2011

6011 rod
I use it only when you are maintanance welding something you can not clean properly, it will burn threw paint, rust, and crap. It is good for tacking, and digging out a crack. Once you have done the root pass with it and cleaned out the scale then you can use a 7018 to get a proper fix. Personally I never use it for the weld just to clean a surface, and get a base.

oldnslo · Mar 10, 2011

Answers to some of the questions:

Brand of rod; I looked all over the container and their is no manufacture name. So much for buying from a welding supply house. Their main lines are Miller & Lincoln.

I am trying to weld rusty dirty painted 12 gauge sheet metal so turning up the amps will just burn more holes. Don't need more holes

Like johnp said it is the best rod I have found for this purpose.

Clean metal usually 6013 or 7018 depending on stress on the joint.

Container says 6011 and each rod is stamped 6011 so I presume it is 6011 not 6010 but have no other proof.

Appreciate all the advice and may go talk to the supply house to see if they have had other complaints. Possibly bad batch of rod..

Roy

turbo36 · Mar 10, 2011

The basis of AC welding is that the current reverses 60 times a second, therefore in essence you are restarting the Arc 60 times a second. Welding rods that are designed to weld with AC have "current stabilizers" added to the flux to help smooth out this "re-start".

6011 is a good all purpose rod to use around the farm or construction sites for welding dirty or out of position welds. It has much less flux then a 6013 rod so controlling the puddle takes a little practice to master but once you do it will be your "go to" rod.

The general rule of thumb is 1 amp per .001 decimal diameter of the rod IE: 3/32" = .093" - 93 amps / This is just a starting point, go up or down depending on your skill level, material thickness, joint design or position of the weld.

6011 is the best rod to weld dirty metal because it has a natural tendency to penetrate into the base material yet freeze quickly to avoid sags. Because of it's aggressive nature it can be hard to control when welding lighter gages.

Back in the "olden days" when I got certified, all the root passes in pipeline welds were made with 6010 (DC variation of 6011) because it would penetrate so well.

SixHoeBob · Mar 10, 2011

We all agree that 6011 is for dirty, rusty metal etc. With that said, first step is to clean as much of the dirt, rust, and paint off off the surfaces to be welded. The object is to have a non-porous finished product. The less contaminates on the surface, the less flaws will be in the finished weld.

I have found "welding" to be 90% designing,fabricating, preparing, cleaning, etc, and 10% actual welding.

Clean and prepare the surfaces as well as possible, then 6011 will do the rest.

Learn to weld with 1/8th inch 6011 on thicker metal at 150 amps. Then go to 3/32 rods at 90 amps. 6011 is a penetration rod. If you are burning through, switch to 6013.

1/8th inch 7018 rods - 200 amps, DC positive

Mark @ Everlast · Mar 10, 2011

Turbo,
That decimal factor you used is NOT for rod diameter, but rather metal thickness of the part you are going to weld with, and even that is not entirely right. And with that, you have to select the right rod diameter with the correct RANGE of amps No way 93 amps is suitable for a 3/32 rod, especially a 60XX series.

Bob,
And for 1/8" 200 amps will smoke the rod.

The problem with welding at these amps is that you will get inclusions and develop a large haz.

Here's a link to Miller's old standby manual. Go to page 20.

My most recent purchase of excalibur 7018s 1/8" give 150 amps as MAX.

From ESAB NA on 6011

Diameter Optimal Amperage Range Amperage Deposition Rate Efficiency
3/32 in, 2.4 mm 75 A 60 - 80 1.3 lbs./hr., 0.6 kg./hr. 61 %
1/8 in, 3.2 mm 100 A 90 - 130 2.3 lbs./hr., 1 kg./hr. 70.7 %
5/32 in, 4.0 mm 140 A 130 - 160 3.7 lbs./hr., 1.7 kg./hr. 77 %
3/16 in, 4.8 mm 160 A 155 - 190 4.1 lbs./hr., 1.9 kg./hr. 73.4 %
7/32 in, 5.6 mm 190 A 175 - 220 5 lbs./hr., 2.3 kg./hr. 74.2 %
1/4 in, 6.4 mm 250 A 225 - 260 5.6 lbs./hr., 2.5 kg./hr. 71.9 %

Shield Arc · Mar 10, 2011

SixHoeBob said:
1/8th inch 7018 rods - 200 amps, DC positive

Man that is smoking! My hat is off to you, I don't think I could handle it that hot.:thumbsup:

According to my Lincoln Weldirectory the highest amps Lincoln recommends for 1/8 inch 7018 is 170-amps.

Chilly807 · Mar 10, 2011

You're right Mark, I had 7018 3/32 on the brain.

Sean

turbo36 · Mar 10, 2011

Mark @ Everlast said:
Turbo,
That decimal factor you used is NOT for rod diameter, but rather metal thickness of the part you are going to weld with, and even that is not entirely right. And with that, you have to select the right rod diameter with the correct RANGE of amps No way 93 amps is suitable for a 3/32 rod, especially a 60XX series.

No, I am correct, this is an acceptable guideline to use as a starting point for a given rod size. He has 3/32" on hand so that is what I used for my example. I would not use a 3/32' electrode on 12 gage but that is what the OP has and he question was what was the proper amperage for the rod not the material thickness.

I was trying to keep it simple, if you want to full version I can give that to you. The proper procedure is too determine the proper amperage and rod size based on material thickness, joint design and position of weld.

I pulled out my "ASM Metals Hand Book on Welding and Brazing" as well as my "Lincoln Procedure Handbook Of Arc Welding" to get the values below
These recommend ranges are for DC straight polarity current - AC requires approximately 10% higher current due to th

I could muddy it up and throw in the DC reverse current requirements but since he has an AC welder I won't.

I will use 1/8" diameter as an example

6011 100 -120 amps (AC 110-130 etc. etc.)
6013 120- 140 amps
7018 120 -140 amps
7104 140 -160 amps ( higher amps needed due to the iron powder in the coating)
7024 160 -170 amps (has a higher % iron then 7014)

Again, this is a starting point - your mileage will vary by many things including the type of welder your are using.
I always found that the DC motor driven welders (and the new solid state welders) seemed to need create more "heat" then the AC buzz box.

SixHoeBob · Mar 10, 2011

Years ago a fellow was watching me weld 1/4 angle for a frame work. When I stopped he told me to turn the heat up, and slow down my travel speed. Immediately, the quality of my work improved. After running a bead on any project, the backside of the metal should be glowing orange. I was told that is an indication of proper penetration. If a hole forms where you were welding, that is excessive penetration. For crucial work I hire a professional welder, with his own portable setup. He told me to run the 7018s at 200 DC+. Works for me, but I still hire out crucial work.

I have used about five different Lincoln buzz boxes, and always the same results at the same settings. It could be that I am using defective welders, or
defective electricity.

I know that I am buying defective gasoline for my vehicles (Ethanol enriched

)