Dargo said:
Yeow! Granted I'm sure aware that this place still has a rather strong markup on what they sell, but it's not the 400% to 1000% markup his company frequently gets on what they sell. One thing I didn't know though, when I was talking to him this morning about this stuff he was telling me about the new 21 SEER and 23 SEER A/C units.
Holy cow! I didn't know that they had equipment with SEER ratings that high. My "old" stuff is mostly 12-13 SEER. If prices come down on that super efficient stuff it may be worth it for me to upgrade before too many more years with as much as I heat and cool. I didn't even ask, but what's the highest SEER stuff out now?
To answer your last question, 23 SEER on residential forced air to air systems. However, SEER is not as important as the EER rating (and you need to look at HSPF on heap pumps). On geothermal systems, over 30 SEER no problem.
Usually, 16 SEER or above uses a two stage compressor. With market cost on single stage compressors compared to two stage compressors, ROI (or payback) usually won't be seen for 15-25 years going to a two stage compressor (16 SEER or higher) from a single stage compressor.
Now, I'm just a dumb guy who happened to be blessed in life and got really lucky in my line of work, but your comment about "400% to 1000% markup" on the equipment that your buddy sells seems a little ridulous, at least for myself.
If equipment costs your buddy $2000, at a 400% markup, your buddy is selling the equipment alone at a $10,000 price tag (the minimum markup which you mentioned). Does that markup inlcude nitrogen, lineset, refrigerant (most units are only precharged up to 25', usually 15'), pad, t-stat, t-stat wire (if needed), carflex and fittings and a host of other things that are needed for a basic retrofit instal? Since you didn't mention it, I have to think no. What about the labor? Is this guy charging 10k plus labor?
Heck, if we split the difference per your percentages and go with a 700% markup, that $2,000 dollar cost of equipment to the contractor would be sold to the homeowner at $14,200 for the equipment equipment ALONE.
If your buddy can sell $2,000 worth of HVAC equipment (his cost) at a minimum cost to the homeowner at $10,000 (excluding any other materials that may be needed because the original system is under or oversized), he can sell snow to the eskimos and his customer base loves him so much that none of his customers gets a second quote to compare. Or, perhaps the market in Indiana is like nothing I've ever seen in six states in the HVAC business (Kenmac may want to move
). That, or he has his own training center, employs over 50 people, has at least 20,000 square feet of space with a plasma cutter as well as a host of other expensive tools, and absolutely needs to charge what he does to meet his overhead expenses and make a decent profit.
I'd guess on average, a basic 13 SEER heat pump system, equipment (no special "features" such as variable speed) will sell on average to a homeowner for between $4500-$7000 depending on how much labor (pain in the butt factor) and materials is needed (excluding a complete new duct system, which could run the cost of the equipment easily).
That said, I do know of a three ton heat pump system that sold earlier this week for $3800. I know the man personally who sold it, but his men are those guys who I wouldn't have them pay me to do work at my house (and I've had to help them on a jobsite). Sad part is the homeowner has no clue. They based their decision on price alone (this guy was the lowest bid). SOMETIMES you do get what you pay for.
I do happen to have friends in the HVAC industry as well. Since I didn't get married til late in life, when I did finally get married, the owner of the second largest Lennox dealer in one state, and the owner of the third largest Carrier dealer in another state actually took the time out of thier schedules to come to my wedding. I only mention this because since I am a dumb guy who's been lucky and blessed, at times I do have a clue and hope not to come across as an idiot (which many times I am).
I sincerely don't mean to sound argumentitive (sp?), however, with the markup that you mentioned, honestly, it makes guys in the HVAC business to look like crooks. Most men I know in the HVAC business are good men of character, charge a fair price for their labor, and stand behind their work. They are professionals.
That said, there are crooks out there in the HVAC field that don't have a clue that you should change out the filter drier when you replace a compressor (or they leave the caps off the drier sitting in their trucks for months at a time). They also use cheap silver solder on coper, don't use nitrogen in a system, don't use a vacuum gauge, and perhaps will run the vacuum pump for a 1/2 hour to "feel good" about the job, and will try to save any amount of time because they we're so cheap in their price, and time is money. They'll also run a 60' lineset with a TXV and don't even consider putting a kickstart on the compressor (or if they do, it'll be a cheap superboost SPP6 because they can save $20). Sad part is, any bad instal practices may not show up per the system for a couple years down the road. Then the homeowner gets angry beacuse they have to pay labor to a company to fix the problem because they (homeowner) went with the cheapest price on instal and the guy who installed it is paying his service techs $10 an hour and the only thing they can do is change the filter, clean the coil and pump some freon into the unit when it's not cooling properly.
Did I mention I really like my new Dyson
