Comparison Drag implements on John Deere Hydrostatics vs. Kubota Hydrostatics.

[plesciad]

I'm a small scale vegetable farmer and my partner and I are in the market for a "do-it-all" machine. For us, that means, ~50hp, 4wd, front end loader, HST or creeper gearing that can go +/- .3 mph, and 60" tread centers with thin rear tires.

We're looking at Kubota's MX series with HST and John Deere's 4 series. (Though, our Kubota dealer is saying they cannot do 60" tread centers in the fronts tires of the MX (53" fixed). Our John Deere dealer says the 4052R (for example) can achieve 60" tread centers in the front, BUT they are cautioning AGAINST using their HST to run any drag implements (discs, ripper shanks etc.). Kubota representatives don't give this warning, and have sold Kubota HSTs to other small veggie farmers in our area who use drag implements (respecting HP ratings and all that).

Is there some quantitative mechanical difference between John Deere HSTs vs. Kubota HST's or is this warning something to disregard. We don't intend to exceed our draw bar horse power on either tractors, but we would want to be able to drag a ripper shank or two and a medium disc, ground driven manure spreader, etc.

Anyone with mechanical knowledge of these transmissions and how they handle drag? Thank you.

 

[midwesternhayfarmer]

I'm a small scale vegetable farmer and my partner and I are in the market for a "do-it-all" machine. For us, that means, ~50hp, 4wd, front end loader, HST or creeper gearing that can go +/- .3 mph, and 60" tread centers with thin rear tires.

We're looking at Kubota's MX series with HST and John Deere's 4 series. (Though, our Kubota dealer is saying they cannot do 60" tread centers in the fronts tires of the MX (53" fixed). Our John Deere dealer says the 4052R (for example) can achieve 60" tread centers in the front, BUT they are cautioning AGAINST using their HST to run any drag implements (discs, ripper shanks etc.). Kubota representatives don't give this warning, and have sold Kubota HSTs to other small veggie farmers in our area who use drag implements (respecting HP ratings and all that).

Is there some quantitative mechanical difference between John Deere HSTs vs. Kubota HST's or is this warning something to disregard. We don't intend to exceed our draw bar horse power on either tractors, but we would want to be able to drag a ripper shank or two and a medium disc, ground driven manure spreader, etc.

Anyone with mechanical knowledge of these transmissions and how they handle drag? Thank you.

Just bought a 4052R and was never told not to pull a soil engaging implement. If that is the case, why would they put a three point and drawbar on that is so heavy duty? I know there are many other implements available for the three point that dont engage the soil, but really?? I need to reread my operators manual.

 

[midwesternhayfarmer]

If thats the case,I should have just bought a skid steer loader.

 

[motownbrowne]

I'm using an MX 4700 HST in veggie production. I'm very very happy with it. I'd absolutely recommend a HST tractor for growing veggies. I don't think you'll have a problem using ground engaging implements with either one.

 

[plesciad]

Just bought a 4052R and was never told not to pull a soil engaging implement. If that is the case, why would they put a three point and drawbar on that is so heavy duty? I know there are many other implements available for the three point that dont engage the soil, but really?? I need to reread my operators manual.

Let me know what you read, if you find anything out. Drawbar horsepower isn't listed in the sales literature, I'd be curious to know what the manual says about it. Thanks!

 

[plesciad]

I'm using an MX 4700 HST in veggie production. I'm very very happy with it. I'd absolutely recommend a HST tractor for growing veggies. I don't think you'll have a problem using ground engaging implements with either one.

Good to know, motobrowne. Do you have the 13.6 ag tires on the back? And can you get into your veggie beds to renovate them with that tractor?

Also.... Do you ever wish you could have 60" centers on the fronts? I'm worried about the non-standard bed size that the 53" front tread centers on the MX creates.

 

[kennyd]

Our John Deere dealer says the 4052R (for example) can achieve 60" tread centers in the front, BUT they are cautioning AGAINST using their HST to run any drag implements (discs, ripper shanks etc.).

Unfortunately I think your dealer is misinformed and/or just plain biased towards gear transmissions, there is no reason any HST cannot pull ground engaging equipment all day everyday.

 

[WM75Guy]

I pull my tiller and manure spreader with my NH HST and CVT all the time. I would ask to see the operators manual where it says that or tell JD that you are eliminating them from consideration because of that statement. See if they change their story.

 

[motownbrowne]

Good to know, motobrowne. Do you have the 13.6 ag tires on the back? And can you get into your veggie beds to renovate them with that tractor?

Also.... Do you ever wish you could have 60" centers on the fronts? I'm worried about the non-standard bed size that the 53" front tread centers on the MX creates.

Yep, 13.6x28s. We grow vegetables in 40" raised beds. I have the tires spaced as 53" on center. So no, I don't have a desire to change the front wheels. I would assume that it's an issue with axle stress from the loader. The 2wd MX has an adjustable front axle, but the wider positions are not for use with the loader. Honestly, the 40" beds work great for us. I don't want them to be wider for very many crops. I can however tell you that I'm pretty sure the hub's aren't in the center of the rim. I think, it you wanted to risk it, you could swap the wheels side to side and gain a little width.

You could also use wheel spacers. I'm not sure if wheels at 60" would interfere with the loader arms, but I can look tomorrow and see how it would fit. I do think that spacing then out might be asking for trouble when using the loader. Using it for pallets of lettuce? Probably not gonna hurt it. Digging in the soil, unloading pallets of feed or fertilizer? Might not want to risk it. I suppose you could always lift the front end with the loader and quick remove the spacers with an impact gun when you need to do heavy lifting.

 

[plesciad]

Yep, 13.6x28s. We grow vegetables in 40" raised beds. I have the tires spaced as 53" on center. So no, I don't have a desire to change the front wheels. I would assume that it's an issue with axle stress from the loader. The 2wd MX has an adjustable front axle, but the wider positions are not for use with the loader. Honestly, the 40" beds work great for us. I don't want them to be wider for very many crops. I can however tell you that I'm pretty sure the hub's aren't in the center of the rim. I think, it you wanted to risk it, you could swap the wheels side to side and gain a little width.

You could also use wheel spacers. I'm not sure if wheels at 60" would interfere with the loader arms, but I can look tomorrow and see how it would fit. I do think that spacing then out might be asking for trouble when using the loader. Using it for pallets of lettuce? Probably not gonna hurt it. Digging in the soil, unloading pallets of feed or fertilizer? Might not want to risk it. I suppose you could always lift the front end with the loader and quick remove the spacers with an impact gun when you need to do heavy lifting.

Thanks, super helpful.