DPF

   / DPF #1  

JRH02

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
436
Location
PNW, canyons and forest.
Tractor
Kub B7100 manual; JD410J, Woodmizer LT50HD
The wife and I went to a town nearby for a Dr appmt and there is a pretty big Kubota dealer there. I said to her that one of these days I'm gonna stop in there instead of talk about it. But one question I have to ask of them might be better here: "When does DPF come into the scene when buying a new tractor?" It seems I've heard that it is a function of HP? Is this true of all manufacturers?

I have to say outright I would NOT buy a new tractor that required DPF. And I sure the heck would spend mega bucks and void the warranty with a defeat mod. So, folks, what's the skinny on new tractors and DPF?
 
   / DPF #2  
Up to 25HP, the emissions requirements can be met without DPF, DEF, EGR, etc.

25hp up to 75HP, that's were the DPF appears. On most engines, EGR and EGR coolers also come into play.

From 75HP and up, it's all the above, plus DEF.
 
   / DPF #3  
So, folks, what's the skinny on new tractors and DPF?

Much ado about nothing. That's my take after having owned a Kubota M7060 for the past 8 years.

I too was worried about the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). No more. Regeneration is a seamless process...if it weren't for the light coming on in the dash telling me the regen process was underway I wouldn't even know. Light goes on for about 15 minutes, then it goes back off again when the regen cycle is done. No difference in the way the tractor sounds or operates, and I don't have to do anything myself - the process is automatic.
 
   / DPF #5  
The wife and I went to a town nearby for a Dr appmt and there is a pretty big Kubota dealer there. I said to her that one of these days I'm gonna stop in there instead of talk about it. But one question I have to ask of them might be better here: "When does DPF come into the scene when buying a new tractor?" It seems I've heard that it is a function of HP? Is this true of all manufacturers?

I have to say outright I would NOT buy a new tractor that required DPF. And I sure the heck would spend mega bucks and void the warranty with a defeat mod. So, folks, what's the skinny on new tractors and DPF?


I am not a fan of emissions and swore them off after my last diesel truck. I chose a Kubota 2502 specifically to stay away from emissions. It is serving me well.

There are options, you can do a delete kit. Although, you obviously void your warranty.. You can buy an almost nearly new Kubota 2501 and add a turbo to it and get up to around 40HP. Tey will eventually have one for the 2502 as well. Or you can buy a nicer used older tractor.
 
   / DPF #6  
Much ado about nothing. That's my take after having owned a Kubota M7060 for the past 8 years.

I too was worried about the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). No more. Regeneration is a seamless process...if it weren't for the light coming on in the dash telling me the regen process was underway I wouldn't even know. Light goes on for about 15 minutes, then it goes back off again when the regen cycle is done. No difference in the way the tractor sounds or operates, and I don't have to do anything myself - the process is automatic.
Yes and no. If you are running an implement at 2k RPM across a field you won't notice. If you are doing loader work with variable RPM you will notice because you'll have to get and keep the RPM up during regen.
 
   / DPF
  • Thread Starter
#7  
My B7100 is just the physical size and HP range I need. I can get it past walk through gates and between trees in the forest. The rears are filled (CC) so it is fairly stabile and we have some pretty irregular contour and slopes. The BH comes off in and the 3 point back in place in a few hours and I have a bunch of attachments if it's worth the change over. So I guess I don't have to worry about DPF/DEF. If I went for new I definitely need the backhoe that is removable so I can use the 3 point stuff.

Frankly, if I could find a small shop or competent self employed guy I'd have the engine rebuilt. I've been into the gear box a few years ago and it literally looks like new. The clutch/PP/bearing/pilot was done a while back. It's got a zillion hours on it and the compression is down but still has sufficient power although starts hard in the cold. And I've had the unit since the early 90's so I've got a soft spot in my heart for it anyway.

It's a tough decision on which direction to go.
 
   / DPF #8  
My B7100 is just the physical size and HP range I need. I can get it past walk through gates and between trees in the forest. The rears are filled (CC) so it is fairly stabile and we have some pretty irregular contour and slopes. The BH comes off in and the 3 point back in place in a few hours and I have a bunch of attachments if it's worth the change over. So I guess I don't have to worry about DPF/DEF. If I went for new I definitely need the backhoe that is removable so I can use the 3 point stuff.

Frankly, if I could find a small shop or competent self employed guy I'd have the engine rebuilt. I've been into the gear box a few years ago and it literally looks like new. The clutch/PP/bearing/pilot was done a while back. It's got a zillion hours on it and the compression is down but still has sufficient power although starts hard in the cold. And I've had the unit since the early 90's so I've got a soft spot in my heart for it anyway.

It's a tough decision on which direction to go.

If you like the B7100, it sounds like a L2501 would be right up your alley. Around here, you can find 2501's with 100 hours on them in like new condition for around $16-17K. I have seen them with backhoe offered in the low 20's. I also see nice B26TLB's offered in the mid 20's as well. The B26TLB would make for a nice machine. Neither of these have DPF.
 
   / DPF #9  
The DPF and DEF debate has been raging here since 2014. Do a search and you'll find hundreds of posts on the subject with very few specific Kubota tractor emissions related complaints. I followed these posts with interest when tractor shopping in 2018 and I now own two DPF equipped Kubota tractors.

I've owned a total of 7 Kubotas since 1979, 5 without DPF, and I can honestly say I've noticed NO difference in performance or maintenance with the newer machines. No DPF related issues whatsoever in 4K hours.

Do I wish they didn't have DPF, sure, but it didn't stop me from buying new instead of going for a used tractor that may have someone elses problems.

Keep in mind, these observations are related specifically to Kubota tractors, and may not apply to trucks or other diesel equipped machines.
 
   / DPF #10  
Yes and no. If you are running an implement at 2k RPM across a field you won't notice. If you are doing loader work with variable RPM you will notice because you'll have to get and keep the RPM up during regen.
Yes and for me that happens for 15 minutes after every 50+ hours of use. 🤔
 
   / DPF #11  
Yes and for me that happens for 15 minutes after every 50+ hours of use. 🤔
My major complaint is that it seems to always want to regen just as I drive up to the barn at the end of the day. So either I find stuff to do, let sit and regen or cancel the regen. I do not like to cancel it. So if you see me hauling rock after dark it is just to be doing something while the tractor burns extra fuel to put all the pollution out in 15 minutes all at once instead of a little all the time.
 
   / DPF #12  
The DPF and DEF debate has been raging here since 2014. Do a search and you'll find hundreds of posts on the subject with very few specific Kubota tractor emissions related complaints. I followed these posts with interest when tractor shopping in 2018 and I now own two DPF equipped Kubota tractors.

I've owned a total of 7 Kubotas since 1979, 5 without DPF, and I can honestly say I've noticed NO difference in performance or maintenance with the newer machines. No DPF related issues whatsoever in 4K hours.

Do I wish they didn't have DPF, sure, but it didn't stop me from buying new instead of going for a used tractor that may have someone elses problems.

Keep in mind, these observations are related specifically to Kubota tractors, and may not apply to trucks or other diesel equipped machines.
DPF in itself isn't that complicated.
The problem is when the government gets involved and sets mandates and the industry waits until the last minute to design systems without enough real world testing.

Take automobiles for example. Today gasoline engines barely put anything out the exhaust and the emissions systems are very reliable.
It just took a few decades to perfect.

Diesels are the new challenge, relatively speaking, as the NOx is difficult to remove. It's created in the high pressure/heat of the diesel combustion event.

OTR and larger construction and farming equipment over 74hp require reducing NOx. This brings in EGR and DEF

Fortunately the requirements for diesel equipment from 26-74hp only requires a DPF... Diesel Particulate Filter.

The DPF is just a simple honeycomb filter much like a catalytic convertor in your car. The particulates attach themselves to the walls of all of those "tubes" as they pass across the filter.

There are a few sensors and a fuel injector that are run by computer.
The computer measures input pressure and exhaust pressure to determine level of restriction.

When the restriction reaches a preprogrammed level, the computer commands a regeneration event which is simply spraying some fuel into the DPF which naturally ignites from the high exhaust temperatures, subsequently burning off the partially burnt particulates. They turn into light ash and get blown out the exhaust.

Anyone with electrical controls expertise could design a box that sends the computer those probe readings at the required intervals which would allow you to remove the DPF. But as you just said.. if it's not an issue, why touch it.

Now the big diesels with EGR, DEF and DPF's have been a real problem.
They are known to reduce engine power and engine lifespan. Plus the added complexity of another injection system that squirts urine into the exhaust stream to convert NOx into harmless nitrogen and water vapor exhaust. I can just see the first discovery where an engineer is pissing into the exhaust LOL.
 
   / DPF #13  
Not all manufacturers use a DPF to meet the emissions requirements. My 2020 New Holland Workmaster 75 uses DOC/EGR technology so there are no regens and no operating requirements. I run it at 2000 rpms which is PTO speed most of the time anyway as that gives me the speed I want in the gears I like. I believe several others use DOC as well, such as Case and Massey.
 
   / DPF #14  
My major complaint is that it seems to always want to regen just as I drive up to the barn at the end of the day. So either I find stuff to do, let sit and regen or cancel the regen. I do not like to cancel it. So if you see me hauling rock after dark it is just to be doing something while the tractor burns extra fuel to put all the pollution out in 15 minutes all at once instead of a little all the time.
I wouldn't worry about cancelling it. It will simply regen when you get back to work. It's only spraying some fuel into the DPF. It needs the high rpms to get hot and expel the ashes.
 
   / DPF #15  
Not all manufacturers use a DPF to meet the emissions requirements. My 2020 New Holland Workmaster 75 uses DOC/EGR technology so there are no regens and no operating requirements. I run it at 2000 rpms which is PTO speed most of the time anyway as that gives me the speed I want in the gears I like. I believe several others use DOC as well, such as Case and Massey.
Nothing is perfect..

The Kubota only uses a DPF.

I believe they went this way so they could tell the customer it doesn't use DEF.

EGR systems are known to clog with soot.

A DOC is simply a catalytic convertor. In gas engines, soot isn't an issue. Diesels it is.

Maintenance and Failure
  • Clogging:
    Over time, the pores in the DOC's substrate can become clogged with soot, unburnt fuel, and oil, leading to reduced efficiency and potential engine problems.

  • Engine-Related Issues:
    Many DOC failures are caused by upstream engine issues, such as faulty fuel injectors or problems with the turbocharger, which can lead to excessive soot buildup.
 
Last edited:
   / DPF #16  
As was mentioned... if you use your PTO frequently, you will have less regens because to get 540 PTO you must run the higher rpms, generally.

I have a Yanmar YT359C tractor with DPF. 150 hrs and it only regenned once and was a non issue.
 
   / DPF #18  
I wouldn't worry about cancelling it. It will simply regen when you get back to work. It's only spraying some fuel into the DPF. It needs the high rpms to get hot and expel the ashes.
Yes and no, it will regen the next time but will speed up the processes by raising the throttle to PTO speed no matter what you want.
I never like my machines to override my current use....
I will cancel regen when I'm in 4-8' deep dried grass and weeds during the dry months. No desire to test the how hot is too hot before it lights up the tinder.
If you cancel in the winter it may below zero when I fire it up next time to feed cattle and it takes a lot of fuel and time to get to regen temp, been there done that. Better to have do it's thing while the tractor is warmed up and been worked. That way I'm not babysitting 30-45 minutes after a run with a couple bales in -10 and wind. No cab here.... and the tractor just comes off Cold by the time I'm done moving hay.

I will do a manual regen in the winter while it's nice and I have stuff to do (like snow removal) that will work the tractor long and hard enough to be worth the fuel burned.
 
   / DPF #19  
Yes and no, it will regen the next time but will speed up the processes by raising the throttle to PTO speed no matter what you want.
I never like my machines to override my current use....
I will cancel regen when I'm in 4-8' deep dried grass and weeds during the dry months. No desire to test the how hot is too hot before it lights up the tinder.
If you cancel in the winter it may below zero when I fire it up next time to feed cattle and it takes a lot of fuel and time to get to regen temp, been there done that. Better to have do it's thing while the tractor is warmed up and been worked. That way I'm not babysitting 30-45 minutes after a run with a couple bales in -10 and wind. No cab here.... and the tractor just comes off Cold by the time I'm done moving hay.

I will do a manual regen in the winter while it's nice and I have stuff to do (like snow removal) that will work the tractor long and hard enough to be worth the fuel burned.
I agree in general. The stuff sucks.
 
   / DPF #20  
Plus the added complexity of another injection system that squirts urine into the exhaust stream to convert NOx into harmless nitrogen and water vapor exhaust.
Where does it squirt urine into the exhaust stream? Just before the filter or does it do it like the Cummins diesel (on 3500's) in the engine cylinders? This has shown to add a lot of fuel to the oil in some cases.
 

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