DOT question

[BamaContractor]

A buddy of mine had a dot officer come to his house and inspect his rig to make sure he was legal as he had been told he needed a cdl to haul his bobcat. After being inspected the officer told him he was legal except for one of his trailer axles needing a set of brakes. He was within the weight limits so he needed no cdl to drive legally. Then the officer tells him that if he crossed state lines he needs a cdl all of a sudden. This makes no sense to me because Alabama complies to the same federal law that florida does...over 10k rated trailer but under 26k GCVW means no cdl required right? Can anyone answer this for me?

Bama

 

[john_bud]

A buddy of mine had a dot officer come to his house and inspect his rig to make sure he was legal as he had been told he needed a cdl to haul his bobcat. After being inspected the officer told him he was legal except for one of his trailer axles needing a set of brakes. He was within the weight limits so he needed no cdl to drive legally. Then the officer tells him that if he crossed state lines he needs a cdl all of a sudden. This makes no sense to me because Alabama complies to the same federal law that florida does...over 10k rated trailer but under 26k GCVW means no cdl required right? Can anyone answer this for me?

Bama

You are correct, under 26k total with an over 10k trailer = no cdl.

Under 26k truck with under 10,001 trailer = no cdl


Is your buddy confused about maybe needing USDOT numbers to cross state lines where they are not needed for intra-state commerce?

 

[BamaContractor]

I'm really not sure. When exactly are dot numbers needed or required? DOT had a road block set up today on my county road with portable scales weighing log trucks but waved me right on through without even blinking so maybe they just assume we're legal if our stuff looks like it's safe and within guidelines?

 

[TMTS]

US DOT numbers are required if you cross state lines...they are not that hard to get, but it puts you "on the radar screen" so to speak with your state DOT. I had a US DOT # for 2 years before I had a visit from my state cops...they were informative and were there mostly to check me out...my record keeping (non-existant at the time) and my vehicles...actually told me I needed a Class A licence to haul the way I was hauling...

I'm an owner operator, so keeping drivers logs, etc. isn't too hard. Need to keep maintence records on vehicles also... Never been pulled over, but if I was, I'm sure they would find something...but my gut feeling is they are after the "big boys"- logging trucks, gravel, etc...a friend of mine had an almost brand new (i.e. 1 month old) Peterbuilt log truck- just about the nicest truck I have ever seen- and he got pulled over...they went over that truck with a fine tooth comb and nailed him for a brake can that was .25" out of adjustment- probably came from the factory that way..

just my $.02 worth...

TMTS

 

[Landwise]

You are correct, under 26k total with an over 10k trailer = no cdl.

Under 26k truck with under 10,001 trailer = no cdl


Is your buddy confused about maybe needing USDOT numbers to cross state lines where they are not needed for intra-state commerce?

Almost right- Under 26k truck with a trailer that does not put you at a combined 26k, no CDL required. Any time you cross that 26k, you need a CDL. Maybe not a Class A, but a CDL non the less.

In NC, a truck under 26 K (F250) with a 7 ton trailer, you must have a Class A Clasified. (GVW Combination up to 26k with a trailer that is over 10K) If you pull a 10 ton trailer with an F250, your combined weight goes over 26k, you must have a class A CDL.

 

[john_bud]

Almost right- Under 26k truck with a trailer that does not put you at a combined 26k, no CDL required. Any time you cross that 26k, you need a CDL. Maybe not a Class A, but a CDL non the less.

In NC, a truck under 26 K (F250) with a 7 ton trailer, you must have a Class A Clasified. (GVW Combination up to 26k with a trailer that is over 10K) If you pull a 10 ton trailer with an F250, your combined weight goes over 26k, you must have a class A CDL.

Ahem .....

This is the loop hole that most folks (and many smiling blue shirted men & women) don't understand.

If you have a truck that is plated, rated and /or loaded to exactly 26,000 pounds with no trailer and you in the seat you are allowed to ALSO tow a trailer that is 10,000 pounds or less -- and you don't need a CDL.

The combined total of 26,001 triggering CDL is in place for trailers OVER 10,000 pounds.

So, for your example of and F250 with a 10 ton trailer lets assume it weighs 6001# for the truck and 20,000 for the trailer kicking it into the CDL area as the total combined weight is 26,001 pounds.

But an F650 that weighs 26,000 can also tow a 10,000 pound trailer and still not need a CDL, even though it has a combined weight of 36,000!

Totally weird and yet, exactly correct according to the written laws!

jb

 

[AlanB]

Ahem .....

This is the loop hole that most folks (and many smiling blue shirted men & women) don't understand.

If you have a truck that is plated, rated and /or loaded to exactly 26,000 pounds with no trailer and you in the seat you are allowed to ALSO tow a trailer that is 10,000 pounds or less -- and you don't need a CDL.

The combined total of 26,001 triggering CDL is in place for trailers OVER 10,000 pounds.

So, for your example of and F250 with a 10 ton trailer lets assume it weighs 6001# for the truck and 20,000 for the trailer kicking it into the CDL area as the total combined weight is 26,001 pounds.

But an F650 that weighs 26,000 can also tow a 10,000 pound trailer and still not need a CDL, even though it has a combined weight of 36,000!

Totally weird and yet, exactly correct according to the written laws!

jb

John not sure I am following your logic here.

So, I am looking at a one ton dump truck with a weight rating of 26000 lbs. that is the GVWR.

Now if It has a higher GCWR of 36000 lbs then it is CDL required.

I have the TN book in front of me (cannot find the commercial TN book online) and if the "GCWR" (Gross COMBINED weight Rating) is over 26,000 lbs you need a CDL A.

So, my thought would be (and I am trying to learn) that in effect what you just said could not come to pass. Or you would be exceeding your GCWR of your vehicle, which, they would then ticket you for that.

Can you explain it differently or use some examples please?

 

[Landwise]

I posted this a few weeks ago, with regards to GCWR. You can buy all the GCWR you want (In NC). The sticker in your door does not "Legally" matter. If you exceed GCWR and get in a wreck, a good lawyer could eat you alive but you can put 30,000 lbs behind an f250 or 50,000 lbs behind a nissan.
That weight is calculated using the bridge formula. Just don't exceed your GVWR of your tow vehicle by adding too much tounge weight.

 

[john_bud]

John not sure I am following your logic here.

So, I am looking at a one ton dump truck with a weight rating of 26000 lbs. that is the GVWR.

Now if It has a higher GCWR of 36000 lbs then it is CDL required.

I have the TN book in front of me (cannot find the commercial TN book online) and if the "GCWR" (Gross COMBINED weight Rating) is over 26,000 lbs you need a CDL A.

So, my thought would be (and I am trying to learn) that in effect what you just said could not come to pass. Or you would be exceeding your GCWR of your vehicle, which, they would then ticket you for that.

Can you explain it differently or use some examples please?

From the Wisconsin DMV downloadable document "cdl-vol1.pdf" which is google findable pretty easy.

************************************************
CMV and CDL Guide
(Examples)
1. A combination vehicle 26,001 or more pounds is a Class é„* CMV only if the trailer being towed has a gross
vehicle weight rating, registered weight or actual gross weight of more than 10,000 pounds.

2. When the weight of the combination vehicle is exactly 26,000 pounds, it is not a CMV and does not require a CDL. Example: A tractor weighs 16,000 pounds and the towed unit weighs 10,000 pounds.

3. When the towing vehicle is 26,000 or less pounds and the towed unit is 10,000 or less pounds, it is not a CMV and does not require a CDL. Example: A tractor weighs 25,500 pounds and the towed unit weighs 8,000 pounds.

4. A CDL with an 哲 tank vehicle endorsement is required only when the capacity of the tank is 1,000 gallons or more and the vehicle fits the description of a CMV.

5. A CDL with a æ’¤ passenger endorsement is required when the vehicle is designed to transport or is actually transporting the driver and 15 or more passengers.
***************************************************

Read #3 closely. If the towing vehicle (truck) is under CDL limit of 26,001# by itself with all load and you in it AND (real important) the trailer is under 10,001# you don't need a CDL. This is a direct copy of the federal regulations. I do like that they put an example in where the total is 33,500# and no CDL is needed.


Most of us get tripped up as our trailers are over 10,000 pounds, so we fall into the 26,001# CDL limit category.

Did that help?

jb

 

[AlanB]

I think it shows there is a difference in the states way of doing the CDL's, and the way they write them makes a difference.

I hate quoting things without being able to point to them on the web, but this is what the TN manual says.

You must have a CDL to operate a vehicle which:

has a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) over 26,000 pounds, inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 10,000 lbs, or

is a traigt vehicle with a GVWR over 26,000 pounds, or

then it talks about buss'es, hazmat etc.

I could see arguing it, and maybe even winning, but, for me, I think at the end, I would come out the looser in that argument, because if the guy with the bluelight and the gun want's to he can make life difficult, if not unbearable for me.

I think for us at this point, we will just stay under that 26K combined limit and I think we will be ok.

We are about half a step away though from going to that next level, and maybe having the dump under CDL would let others w/o the CDL run at least the dump, then have the CDL person drive (me) when pulling the trailer.