Don't forget to torque those wheels!

[BigDave]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Have you ever heard of a wheel falling off of a Kubota ? )</font>

Below are links that mention Kubotas with loose bolts, but to their credit, none of their wheels fell off. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wheel Noise..errrnt, errrnt...

loose wheel bolts on NH boomer

Worth Checking the Bolts

L-Serie Loose Rear Wheels

 

[Junkman]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

More about the Green Machine than I care to read..... can you condense it down to a few words????? If Deere is one of them, then you only have to look for the other 19.... simple math.... 20 - 1 = 19.... LOL

 

[rambler]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

In the old days, we had 2wd tractors.

Now we have light-weight 4wd tractors.

When you make a corner, a couple wheels are trying to rotate forward faster than the other 2 wheels.

When you turn in the other direction, the pairs of wheels are wanting to push/pull in the other direction. You can see one wheel skid a bit when you turn real short.

What you don't see is the same skidding of the wheel rim inside your lug nuts.....

Repeat that a few 100,000 times on a lightweight rim with minimal lug nuts - and things are going to want to pull apart.

--->Paul

 

[markct]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

it had never even occured to me that most of these tractors are 4 wd, that definatly puts alot more stress on the front lugs when turning, especialy with a loaded loader bucket. probably another reason it seems to be most common on compact tractors

 

[cowboydoc]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

That was a nice waste of webspace Hickory. I found over 300 posts on this site alone regarding loose lugnuts on New Holland, Kubota, a fifth wheel trailer, Yanmar, Chinese tractors, this post started with a post on a JCB. I'm not going to waste the webspace here posting every post. You can go do a similiar search yourself if you don't believe me. Yes it happens with all makes and models.

 

[pruntyc]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

I haven't owned a Chyrsler product in years, so I don't know about now days. But many years ago all the left side nuts were backward, from the right. I guess it kept them from coming loose, or they wouldn't have done it. I don't know if they are still that way or not. But it shows it has always been a problem. It sure came as a surprise the first time you had a flat and had to take a left side wheel off. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[markct]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

ford did that on a few trucks in the early 80s, i had just bought my 84 F350 and went to change the rear tires, this was about 3 years ago. i got th passenger side off fine, but the drivers side wouldnt budge, impact gun, big lug wrench, and i had just gotten a pipe to put on the lug wrench when i realized the lugs had an L stamped into the end, then a look at the threads confirmed that they were left handed. they came right off that way! i figured someone had put in the wrong lugs at one time, then a while later i purchased a spare rear end for my truck and it too was left hand, and i also found one other guy in town who had done the same as i till he realized they were left hand. pretty weird

 

[Old_Hickory]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

I bet it happens on hydro's only. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

see if this helps............

01-11-35-05
Functional Group: 0100
DTAC Solutions Legacy: LV51480 Web: 51480
16 November 2001
John Deere Augusta
WHEEL DISK TO AXLE BOLTS LOOSEN AND BREAK
Compact Utility Tractor
4200C( -426437), 4200H( -421852), 4200E(-429133),
4300C( -435497), 4300S( -437270), 4300H( -432548), 4300E(-439289),
4400S( -446531), 4400H( -441883), 4400E(-449424)
Complaint or Symptom:
Rear wheel disks to axle bolts loosen and
break on the following tire sizes:
11.2-24 4 PR R3 Rear Wheel
14-17.5 6 PR R4 Rear Wheel
11.2-24 4 PR R1 Rear Wheel
15-19.5 6 PR R4 Rear Wheel
12.4-24 6 PR R1 Rear Wheel
Problem:
1. Conical hub bolts loosen during forward
and reverse cycle or hillside operation.
2. Loose hub bolts allow disk holes to
wallow oblong.
3. Current countersunk holes in disk may
not provide adequate hub bolt mating
surface.
NOTE: Symptoms described above are for
the flat disk, not coined disk design.
Solution:
1. Check for stripped threads. Drill and
Helicoil axle tapped holes, if necessary.
2. Replace disk if holes are wallowed.
3. Replace all original hardware with new
bolt and flat washer to provide improved
clamping force.
4. Remove paint from the axle flange and
wheel bolt circle mating surfaces.
5. Replace wheels and tighten wheel to
axle bolts to 154 N • m (114 lb-ft).
6. Wheel bolts should be clean but not
oiled. Oil will decrease friction, allow
more torque and break the bolt.
Parts:
16-LVU12708 Bolt (Wheel to Axle)
16-24M7436 Washer (M14x32x4mm)
2-Wheel (See Parts Catalog)
Additional Information:
Check torque at 10 hour interval for the first
20 hours. Check torque often during the first
100 hours.

 

[slowrev]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

3. Current countersunk holes in disk may
not provide adequate hub bolt mating
surface.
NOTE: Symptoms described above are for
the flat disk, not coined disk design.
Solution:

As I thought thin metal. Lug nuts cannot grip properly if they don't have enough surface area.

I guess that all tractors that have thin metal wheels will have this problem.

 

[normde2001]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

Therein lies the secret. Most tractor wheels do not have countersunk holes/lugnuts. If they do they are not deep/thick enough to hold properly. Auto/ truck wheels are either heavier or are stamped in a way that provides a deeper gripping surface. If not countersunk there is nothing but friction to keep the wheel snug on the hub.

 

[frank_f15]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

HAVE TO AGREE with u also! when is the last time anyone picked up a new car and went home and checked the torque on the wheels? know that tractors and cars are different, but should not have to do that all the time. i do however check all the bolts and nuts on the tractor .

 

[prosperity]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

Just thought I'd update on my original thread:
We have a very rigorous preventive maintenance system at work. When heavy trucks wheels are pulled, they are brought back in around 200 miles later for wheel re-torque. This backhoe seemed to fall through the cracks somehow though. The wheel re-torque will come up as standard procedure after equipment has been in the shop for wheel pull. This backhoe was brought in new, so it wasn't in the "system" yet I guess. I questioned our mechanic about this, and he replied "I know they need re-torqued". The problem is that his supervisor doesn't like him taking things on his own and doing them. Kind of a power struggle of sorts I guess. As operators of our equipment, we are required to do a "pre-trip" on anything we move each day. That "pre-trip" calls for a visual and hand check of the lug nuts/wheel bolts. Well, with 15,000lbs resting on those wheels, you aren't moving them by hand, or can you see anything wrong. Luckily someone was using it in the yard one day, and when he raised up the rear end with the outriggers, a "bystander" saw the wheels flop as he lifted. Actually someone could have been really hurt here.

So....who's to blame? I don't know. One of those things that sometimes fall through the cracks in a large operation I guess. Just like the dump truck I was operating yesterday - a state trooper needed to point out to me that my trucks inspection sticker was running out that day!

 

[Junkman]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

Every time that I get the car back from having service where the wheels were removed, I check to see if I can remove the lug nut on each of the wheels.... If I can't, back it goes to the shop for them to loosen them up..... if they use a air gun, they often times just make them so tight that you can't get them off when you are on the road and don't have the heavy duty tools to do it.... With the newer alloy wheels, a torque wrench is a must.... over tighten and they will stress crack...

 

[mikemac]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

Thanks everyone, I was reading your posts and remembered when I bought my new dump trailer about 400 miles ago they said to check the lug nuts after 50 miles, well I forgot until I read your posts and ran out in the dark, sure enough most were loose and a couple were ready to come off. Thanks for saving me from a disaster. If ever in Seattle the beers on me! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[dos_perros]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

I had a similar problem with loose left rear wheel. Rim to dish bolts loose, two fell out. Dealer replaced bolt set, but provided lock washers instead of OEM flat washers. He suggested that lock washers less likely to loosen. Are lock washers better and if so why not provided initially on new tractor?

 

[DavidJ]

Re: Don\'t forget to torque those wheels!

If you ever attend a locktite seminar (I've been to many) you'll see that lock washers are not designed to prevent fasteners from loosening. They just prevent them from falling out once they loosen.

Wheel flanges are designed to provide the friction needed to hold the fastener at torque but since this is not a perfect world things happen to overcome this and we get wheels falling off.

If you really want to keep the nuts from loosening use some form of thread locking compound. The major drawback to this is that every time you need to move (loosen or tighten) the fastener you MUST clean both threaded parts(the outer and inner threads) before retorquing.