Does this sound right to you?

turbotom1052 · Jun 24, 2020

On June 17th 2020 I applied for 0 percent financing on a Kioti CK10 series tractor through Kiotis finance company. My application was approved but was told by my dealer that they didn't have the tractor in stock, and wouldn't be able to deliver until August. I was in agreement with that and left the dealership to go home and patiently, or perhaps not so patiently wait until August delivery. Since that day Ive received from Kiotis finance arm, a copy of the amortization schedule with the first payment scheduled for July. In effect they want me to begin making payments on a piece of machinery that they have yet to deliver, and will not be able to deliver until August. At the end of the day, or by the end of the loan term, it will not cost me any more money, but it just seems like BS to me. What say you???

deezler · Jun 24, 2020

Welcome to TTBN. I say BS! I would most CERTAINLY never start paying for a piece of equipment you have yet to lay eyes on.

Shoddy work on the dealer's part. The purchase contract should not have been finalized until the tractor was delivered, in my opinion. At the very least it should have been dated into the future, say mid august.

What if it gets damaged during delivery? Has immediate and obvious build quality issues? Never makes it to your dealer?

If you add your location to your TBN profile, many users might be able to help provide experiences at your regional dealers. Do you have others nearby? They seriously couldn't get their hands on a CK2610 for over a month? hmmmmm.....

Roadworthy · Jun 24, 2020

It's not right but sounds normal. It's a classic case of one hand not knowing what the other's doing. Tractors come from one place, bills from another. Hopefully things go smoothly. Talk to the dealer.

BrkMstr · Jun 24, 2020

It should be easily corrected by the dealer - dealer most likely dated contracted improperly or did not notify finance of delivery date - if you state that you'll finalize contract / start payments only upon delivery / inspection - I'm sure they will change it they are not going to lose a sale over it......

arcadelt · Jun 24, 2020

Was the zero percent offer time limited? Is it possible that if the contract was dated after the delivery in August you might have missed a deadline and the interest rate may be different?

turbotom1052 · Jun 24, 2020

I have no ill will towards the dealer. As a matter of fact ive got a good feeling about the dealer. They were up front with me about the delivery schedule, and it was I who chose to do the deal in spite of the delay. My issue is with the finance company, who wants me to begin the payments BEFORE I assume delivery. I could probably rectify this by insisting that payments don't begin until AFTER I accept delivery. The problem arises when it comes to the finance terms. Kiotis 0 down 0 percent for 84 months is due to expire at the end of June. These are the only terms that will work for me and would hate to miss out on this finance deal. Im fairly certain that I could easily get out of this contract if I chose to, but concerned that these loan terms will not be available comes August, when the tractor makes it to the dealership. As mentioned in my original post this deal is not costing me any more money. My issue is based more on principal than anything else. I suppose there is the possibility that the finance company knows nothing of the delayed delivery, and that a simple phone call would straighten this all out. Now that im thinking about it more with a cooler head, perhaps I jumped the gun by coming here and posting my story. On the other hand they could just be holding me to an amortization schedule as of the contract signing date regardless of delivery date.

turbotom1052 · Jun 24, 2020

arcadelt said:
Was the zero percent offer time limited? Is it possible that if the contract was dated after the delivery in August you might have missed a deadline and the interest rate may be different?

This sounds plausible

jcbGM · Jun 27, 2020

Couple things....

1. You said you “applied” for 0%. This is different than signing final finance docs. An application just allows them to pull your credit and determine if your a suitable credit risk.

2. Receiving a notice if payment and amortization schedule implies that someone signed finance documents. This would be you acceptance of the terms of finance which includes material acceptance (you have the machine). These documents will include the serial number of the asset. Did you sign final finance docs? Do the papers you have include the serial number?

This is a VERY slippery slope. Regardless if 0% is available in August, the dealer can not legally invoice the machine and initiate finance without delivery and your acceptance of the asset. If they did, your dealer committed a felony and is SoT (selling out of trust). 20 years running and owning dealerships and I’ve never seen a dealer franchise agreement that didn’t immediately cancel a dealer if they were SoT.

The dealer has been paid for the tractor (by finance) if you are receiving a payment schedule, yet he doesn’t have the asset to sell to you and hasn’t been invoiced by Kioti. He has likely had these funds wired into his account and is using them to operate his business.

The dealer could have done this to get you the current promotional offer and it may all be fine, but in doing so he has defrauded the finance company (because they think you are in possession of the asset). You can play along and hope he delivers in August, but be aware, SoT is common when dealers are in financial trouble. They may be using the funds from your deal to make payroll and keep the lights on this month and come August, he may or may not have enough cash to pay Kioti for the tractor that you ordered and the house of cards begins to collapse.

Send me a PM and I can walk you through this potential mess.

jcbGM · Jun 27, 2020

Roadworthy said:
It's not right but sounds normal. It's a classic case of one hand not knowing what the other's doing. Tractors come from one place, bills from another. Hopefully things go smoothly. Talk to the dealer.

Has nothing to do with one hand and the other. The dealer had to submit signed finance docs to the finance company to initiate payment the payment stream. This is NOT innocent and a “classic case”.

turbotom1052 · Jun 27, 2020

jcbGM said:
Couple things....

1. You said you “applied” for 0%. This is different than signing final finance docs. An application just allows them to pull your credit and determine if your a suitable credit risk.

2. Receiving a notice if payment and amortization schedule implies that someone signed finance documents. This would be you acceptance of the terms of finance which includes material acceptance (you have the machine). These documents will include the serial number of the asset. Did you sign final finance docs? Do the papers you have include the serial number?

This is a VERY slippery slope. Regardless if 0% is available in August, the dealer can not legally invoice the machine and initiate finance without delivery and your acceptance of the asset. If they did, your dealer committed a felony and is SoT (selling out of trust). 20 years running and owning dealerships and I’ve never seen a dealer franchise agreement that didn’t immediately cancel a dealer if they were SoT.

The dealer has been paid for the tractor (by finance) if you are receiving a payment schedule, yet he doesn’t have the asset to sell to you and hasn’t been invoiced by Kioti. He has likely had these funds wired into his account and is using them to operate his business.

The dealer could have done this to get you the current promotional offer and it may all be fine, but in doing so he has defrauded the finance company (because they think you are in possession of the asset). You can play along and hope he delivers in August, but be aware, SoT is common when dealers are in financial trouble. They may be using the funds from your deal to make payroll and keep the lights on this month and come August, he may or may not have enough cash to pay Kioti for the tractor that you ordered and the house of cards begins to collapse.

Send me a PM and I can walk you through this potential mess.

We did sign whatever docs were required to receive an amortization schedule. As far as serial numbers, the only one that was listed was for the loader. The spot for a serial number for the tractor was left blank. Since my last posting Ive had opportunity to speak with the dealer. I voiced my discomfort in making a payment on a piece of equipment that I have yet to accept delivery on. I also made it be known that if the finance deal that was originnaly offered, and which expires on June 30th was no longer on the table comes July 1st (before my first payment is due) that i would be walking. Dealer was understanding of that but seemed pretty confident that the finance deal would be renewed. I guess Ill know exactly were I stand in a couple of days.

TractorTidy · Jul 4, 2020

There is no defrauding or fraud going on here. The finance company knows there is not a tractor delivered because there is no S.N. I do not know however why the dealer submitted the paperwork if no tractor and why you have gotten a payment booklet. Perhaps the dealer was trying to protect the rate but usually the rate you get is what would be in effect when the tractor is delivered. Finance programs are usually not “protected”.
The finance co. Is separate from Kioti but does there financing for them. The dealer is the one who initiates the finance transaction.
Kioti doesn’t know the tractor is sold until paid for and registered by the dealer.
If you have questions, ask your dealer or contact the finance co..
You shouldn’t be required to pay for an item you don’t have. I’m sure there is an explanation. Just find out.
Unless the prime is changed, the current rates will probably continue to be extended, especially since tractors are b.o.’d right now.

turbotom1052 · Aug 6, 2020

JCB ive sent you a PM

Dclerici1 · Sep 23, 2020

So, I’m curious, what was the outcome here? You left us hanging.....

turbotom1052 · Sep 23, 2020

Didn't mean to leave things so up in the air, but they are still up in the air. Was having no luck with all my efforts to communicate with either DLL finance, Kioti Corporate, or my dealer. I had written off buying a Kioti tractor and was all set to go with a Kubota. There was still the issue of DLL wanting me to make payments on a tractor that had yet to be delivered. My DLL account was listed on their website as 60 days overdue but did not make it to the credit reporting bureaus, other than to be listed as an open account. It became obvious to me that I needed some help in negotiating these dangerous waters, so I had to hire an attorney. It took a single letter from my attorney, to the dealer, requesting copies of ALL documents that had been signed by my wife and I. Within a week of my dealer receiving the letter, I was contacted by dealer that my tractor had come in, and was getting prepped for delivery, if I still wanted it. I took delivery at the very end of August. A NEW contract was signed by wife and I, with a written caveat that previous contract was "null and void" Within a week after taking delivery, the original account that showed as an open account on one of the credit bureaus , was removed from of my credit report. My wife and I are still working on getting the original account removed from her credit report hence the statement that its still up in the air. I anticipate a full resolve to this issue soon, and am busy at work with my new CK2610. As much as dislike the legal profession, I must say that they are a necessary evil, and probably would have wound up going with the other orange guys if it were not for my enlisting his help in resolving this. All of this wound up costing me an hour of his billable time @ $285 bucks an hour. As soon as the original account gets removed from my wife's credit report, I will consider all this ugliness over, and report here accordingly. In the meantime I must say that Im very impressed with the capabilities of this machine and would recommend to anyone considering purchasing one. I will at this point say that if other finance options exist for anyone considering this purchase, that they think long and hard about their local bank or credit union, as my experience with DLL was not what I would call a "smooth transaction".

deezler · Sep 23, 2020

Well congrats on your new machine! Hope it provides you years of trouble free service.

Thats a long saga. Painful that you had to hire an attorney.

So what is the main takeaway? What you would you do differently next time to keep this from happening? I hope to buy a new Kioti within the year, how do I avoid this potential pitfall? Thanks.

TractorTidy · Sep 23, 2020

As being very privy to the workings of Kioti and DLL, something about this whole story is not right. There should never have been a contract sent in if the tractor had not been delivered to minimum the dealer.
DLL will not start payments for something that hasn't been delivered. They have to have a SN on the major piece. Not knowing where the error started, it probably was the dealer but don't know how it would have gotten farther w/ DLL. So there is still much unknown here to define what actually happened.
I can pretty much assure any future buyer this will not and does not happen. There was a glitch in this one somehow and somewhere.

turbotom1052 · Sep 23, 2020

It very well may have started off as a glitch, but it quickly progressed to extremely poor customer service. The behind the scenes story may never be known, but I can tell you this.... When all my attempts at bringing this "glitch" to light was met by mysteriously dropped phone calls, and no return of voicemail messages on multiple occasions, I was left with an unsatisfactory experience with multiple parties. If you want to carry water for the participants, that is your prerogative. All I can say at this point is that I was not satisfied, and others can draw their own conclusions. It would appear that once an attorney became involved, then all "glitches" seemed to straighten themselves out!!! Ahhh just checked your profile tractor tidy. Was not at all surprised to see that you are a Kioti dealer. I guess that all that remains to be seen is if you will try to use some influence to get this thread edited.

TractorTidy · Sep 23, 2020

So! Just trying to give somewhat of an explanation.

the old grind · Sep 23, 2020

turbotom1052 said:
.... Was not at all surprised to see that you are a Kioti dealer. I guess that all that remains to be seen is if you will try to use some influence to get this thread edited.

I guess you haven't been here for long. No way that would happen. (There's still a difference between bitter truth and bitter acceptance of reality.)

TBN is far from a mutual back-patting bunch of crybabies and you'll be comfortable here before you know it.

Meanwhile, I hope you can move beyond the frustration. You definitely nailed buying the right machine. :thumbsup: Get on it and make yourself proud of the choice.

btw, Tom, "You don't have to thank us or laugh at our jokes. Sit deep and come often, you're one of the folks." jon