Does anyone know what the timing marks look like for 3038 injection pump gears?

[Caveman3250]

I had to remove my injection pump from 3038 and need to reinstall. There doesn't seem to be any normal markings for lining up gears. Does anyone out there have a pic or idea?
Thanks
Caveman

 

[thepumpguysc]

If its the PFR style pump.. no timing marks on the pump..
there are shims under the pump to set the timing.. just use the ones that came out of it & you'll be fine.

 

[Caveman3250]

I don't know what a PFR style pump is. This pump seems to be normal gear to gear mesh with access cover on front of engine to see and align gears. I am used to having one gear with a dot stamped on a tooth and the opposite gear having 2 dots on 2 teeth and the other gear goes in between the 2 dots. This one has 4 teeth with numbers on them together and then 2 other numbers in different spot on same gear. The drive gear has 2 numbers stamped on teeth. I will try and post pics later

 

[thepumpguysc]

That sure doesn't sound like a PFR style pump.. The PFR sits DOWN IN the block..
& is held in by a few bolts/nuts on the corner of the pump..
You might have a CAV DPA pump.. a triangle mounting flange w/ 3 nuts/bolts?? Throttle & shut/off on the top cover??
Is your drive on the pump held to the gear w/ 3- 1/2" bolts?? & is master splined/dowl pin??
IF SO, that's a CAV DPA pump.. & u took the gear out?? IF NOT, it just bolts up w/ the 3 bolts on the gear & a master dowel.. & a timing line on the pump flange that matches a like on the block..
It might be easier to send the pic to my home mail.. just put at a o l dot com after my screen name in your home mail server..

 

[Caveman3250]

Pump is similar to a db2 used on gm diesels except it ha 2 volts to mount. Also, you can remove the plate that mounts to engine with the pump without removing the pumps drive gear so there is no dowel to line up. I took pics but gotta figure out how to post in this topic...

 

[Caveman3250]

Pics.

 

[thepumpguysc]

How about a pic of the pump & some pump #'s off the tag..
That shaft is probably keyed?? So you must of removed the gear??

 

[Caveman3250]

The gear hasn’t been removed from pump shaft. I’ll send pump numbers as well.

 

[Caveman3250]

Ok, here are pics of injection pump. No numbers visible.

 

[Caveman3250]

Also, I can get it to run now, so timing must be close however it runs smoothly, will rev up slowly but after a minute or so it will slowly die. Sounds like it’s starving for fuel. What do u guys think?

 

[thepumpguysc]

That's a VE pump.. Your GONNA HAVE TO ANSWER the questions..Was the pump REMOVED FROM THE GEAR?? Was it KEYED??
Did you MOVE/REMOVE THE GEARS from one another??
Does it have a LIFT PUMP?? Have u checked the INLET PRESSURE??
Have you MOVED THE PUMP left & right & checked the response??

 

[Caveman3250]

Pump not removed from gear, comes out with gear still attached.
Doesn’t have lift pump
Haven’t checked inlet pressure but do have fuel flow by gravity
Moved pump left and right but couldn’t tell if much of response bc engine would just continue to slow and die

 

[thepumpguysc]

It "sounds like" a fuel supply problem?? Follow the fuel lines to MAKE SURE it doesn't have a lift pump..
WHY was the pump removed??
The 7's are clearly marked.. If you look closely, there are what look like 7's next to the 6's on the pump gear.. Your 1 tooth off..

 

[Caveman3250]

Pump removed to repair fuel shutoff solenoid. No lift pump.
The drive gear has two 7’s, the pump gear has two 6’s and two V’s. That is where I’m confused. Shouldn’t the pump gear have just one 6 or V so it will line up in middle of the two 7’s on drive gear?
I will check further on fuel starvation problem and report back, maybe there is air in system

 

[thepumpguysc]

Cant tell if they're "V"'s or "7"'s..
Why in thehell didn't u mark the gears?? Have u spun the engine all the way around to see if there are any other #'s??
I've changed THOUSANDS of solenoids with out removing a pump. Grind down a 15/16 wrench.. I know its metric.. but "I've" never had to take 1 off.. just sayin..

 

[Caveman3250]

Cant tell if they're "V"'s or "7"'s..
Why in thehell didn't u mark the gears?? Have u spun the engine all the way around to see if there are any other #'s??
I've changed THOUSANDS of solenoids with out removing a pump. Grind down a 15/16 wrench.. I know its metric.. but "I've" never had to take 1 off.. just sayin..

When taking cover off, pump dropped and disengaged drive gear before I could mark it, I think it’s only a tooth off but I have never removed a pump that wasn’t marked clearly with dots, dashes, etc. I’m not a jack leg mechanic, just not expert on LS tractors. That’s why I’m reaching out for advice. Tried to remove solenoid but it was too tight to work on without removing pump.

 

[Caveman3250]

When taking cover off, pump dropped and disengaged drive gear before I could mark it, I think it’s only a tooth off but I have never removed a pump that wasn’t marked clearly with dots, dashes, etc. I’m not a jack leg mechanic, just not expert on LS tractors. That’s why I’m reaching out for advice. Tried to remove solenoid but it was too tight to work on without removing pump.

Update, got timing figured out. Now issue is it dies when low idle after running for minute or two. Like starving for fuel. Blew out lines to tank and to pump and fuel is getting to it. Since I took injection pump off, could there be air in injection lines or pump and if so, how do u purge it?

 

[gimmodog]

bleed the air out by loosening the lines at the injectors. turn over until all air bubbles stops bubbling and only fuel coming out. Usually one will clear up then the next. Once all lines are pumping only fuel the tighten em back up and fire it up

 

[thepumpguysc]

^^^ what Gimmodog said.. ^^^
Have u pulled & had the injectors checked??
Sorry about the stupid questions.. BUT
The quality of your questions dictate the quality of your answers..!!!
JUST LIKE ABOVE.. "got timing figured out">> well what was it??
U might not be a "jack leg" but your very hard to communicate with..

 

[Caveman3250]

^^^ what Gimmodog said.. ^^^
Have u pulled & had the injectors checked??
Sorry about the stupid questions.. BUT
The quality of your questions dictate the quality of your answers..!!!
JUST LIKE ABOVE.. "got timing figured out">> well what was it??
U might not be a "jack leg" but your very hard to communicate with..

Haven’t pulled injectors yet, haven’t been an issue until now.
I did bleed lines like you guys suggested and still dies eventually.

I will describe what it is doing now to the best of my ability. It will crank and slowly catch or fire up when cold. Will go to full power without problem, then I lower to say 30% power and it starts to lag or start slowing on it’s own, I’ll increase throttle and it does nothing. Then it continues to slow until it dies. Hard to start it back after that unless I wait for say 10 mins.
I haven’t done anything to pump except repair solenoid shut off valve. Simply removed it from tractor and replaced it, I did mark timing marks, the adjustable external adjustment, and had hard time finding timing gear marks but finally figured out the numerous markings on pump/drive gears.
Replaced fuel filter, blew out fuel lines, added fresh fuel. I’m at a loss for what to do other than taking pump and injectors to diesel shop?