Do white pines get old & brittle???

[mllud]

This photo was taken less than 15 minutes ago.
They aren't leaning left from growth pattern, there are 50 mph out there today. I caught them on a wind gust. Ther about 60' and were 1990 Missouri conservation bare root stock. 25 for $7.50 back then.
They look sparce because year before last year's needles just shed.
No limbs shedding. You have critters vandalizing.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

White pines are my favorite tree. Over decades white pines will make the soil so acidic around themselves that even norway pines cannot survive in a white pine forest. That said, yes, during winter white pines are prone to damage from wind, snow or ice load. Whites tend to grow in groups, but trees that are out in the open by themselves will "self prune" and become tougher in time. That said, birch are another "self-pruning" tree.

 

[olenjohn]

Did you plant a midget variety of white pine? Only 40 feet tall? At 43 years and 18” / 24” diameter, 60 feet plus would be more likely. And yes. That is a stupid question. Of course the tree is getting old. It certainly isn’t growing younger. White pines are very vulnerable to snapping, especially in cold frigid weather. Wet snow or a good ice storm with some wind will really thin pines.
This is standard finding in my yard.

 

[jyoutz]

Did you plant a midget variety of white pine? Only 40 feet tall? At 43 years and 18” / 24” diameter, 60 feet plus would be more likely. And yes. That is a stupid question. Of course the tree is getting old. It certainly isn’t growing younger. White pines are very vulnerable to snapping, especially in cold frigid weather. Wet snow or a good ice storm with some wind will really thin pines.
This is standard finding in my yard.

Trees grow at variable height rates determined by site conditions (soils, climate). The same species could be 70 feet in height at 40 years, or 40 feet in height at the same age on different sites. Height growth is site dependent, diameter growth is more dependent on climate and room to grow. A species that lives to 200+ years is by no means old at 40years.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I was guessing at 40ft. I'm sure they're taller than that.

 

[ljgordon]

Sounds like a stupid question, but 43 years ago I planted 100 white pine seedlings. You could hold all in one hand...pencil sized and I planted with a dibble bar. Now they average about 18"-24" across and 40ft tall. The problem is almost every day there are branches that look healthy but snapped off, anywhere from 1/2" to 4" diameter.
After snow & ice I hauled 5 heaping truckload off, now it averages a wheelbarrow a day. Pictured are a few and I used a small chipper.
Is this because they're old?View attachment 3084091View attachment 3084092

I attended a talk by a tree expert. He talked about pines in particular since pine is the dominate tree in New Mexico. The one major thing I learned is when a pine tree thinks a limb is no longer useful to the tree, the tree will get rid of the limb by cutting off nutrients to the limb and killing it.

 

[jyoutz]

I attended a talk by a tree expert. He talked about pines in particular since pine is the dominate tree in New Mexico. The one major thing I learned is when a pine tree thinks a limb is no longer useful to the tree, the tree will get rid of the limb by cutting off nutrients to the limb and killing it.

True, but this happens in the lower crown, not the upper crown.

 

[mllud]

Eastern white pine are the most common white pine planted. the lower limbs do die as they get shaded from sunlight.
Those green falling branches the O.P. has could have broken in a snow then hung up in other branches and are now falling
Here is a little information


White pines typically grow at a fast rate, with height increases of up to 24 inches (2 feet) per year once established, though growth can vary depending on the specific species and growing conditions.

Here's a more detailed look at white pine growth:

• Initial Growth:
  Height growth of both planted and natural white pine is slow during the first 2 to 3 years.
  
  
• Accelerated Growth:
  Afterwards, growth accelerates rapidly, peaking at an average annual rate of 1 meter (3 ft) between 10 and 15 years.
  
  
• • Mature Height:
    Eastern White Pine can grow to a height of 50–80 feet tall and 20–40 feet wide at maturity.
  • Factors Affecting Growth:
    Growth rates can vary based on factors like soil type, moisture levels, sunlight, and the specific species of white pine.
  • Species Variation:
    While Eastern White Pine is known for its fast growth, other white pine species may have slightly different growth rates.

 

[Mudfarmer]

Conifers in the pine family generally become "brittle" in the winter which is when they shed their branches. Once the sap flows in the spring the brittleness abates. Eagles know that; they build their nests before the sap starts to flow. They don't collect nesting material from the ground, they strike a brittle winter limb in flight and break it off. On another note, don't park any vehicles under pine or fir trees and stay out of the woods during winter storms. Finally, if you are going to prune your timber trees, winter is the best time since the branches come off easier due to their brittleness.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Conifers in the pine family generally become "brittle" in the winter which is when they shed their branches. Once the sap flows in the spring the brittleness abates. Eagles know that; they build their nests before the sap starts to flow. They don't collect nesting material from the ground, they strike a brittle winter limb in flight and break it off. On another note, don't park any vehicles under pine or fir trees and stay out of the woods during winter storms. Finally, if you are going to prune your timber trees, winter is the best time since the branches come off easier due to their brittleness.

I've got an eagle nest at the top of my northern hill on my lake property about 200ish feet away from my bedroom window. It's always very exciting to be a young eagle every morning during the summer. They're like roosters.

Eagles were rare when I was a kid now they are super common and our loon population is suffering from the eagles picking chicks off of the parents when young. I first saw that happen back in 2004 while sitting on my dock playing fetch with my dogs.

 

[I Piddle]

Sounds like a stupid question, but 43 years ago I planted 100 white pine seedlings. You could hold all in one hand...pencil sized and I planted with a dibble bar. Now they average about 18"-24" across and 40ft tall. The problem is almost every day there are branches that look healthy but snapped off, anywhere from 1/2" to 4" diameter.
After snow & ice I hauled 5 heaping truckload off, now it averages a wheelbarrow a day. Pictured are a few and I used a small chipper.
Is this because they're old?View attachment 3084091View attachment 3084092

Somewhat off-topic, When I was a kid 70+ years ago the state of Maryland bought several farms around us. I used to see deer eating in the Buckwheat fields at night. The State planted pine trees in the fields. These trees are 70 or more years old. I don't know what kind of pine. To the point, the trees are planted like crops. Relatively close together. They are 20 to 30 feet tall, the trunks are under 12". They provide good wildlife habitat. But I see no economic value other than pulpwood. Our paper mill shut down about 10 years ago. In 70 years there should have been some good hardwood trees bigger than that. I understand about the habitat, but I would think the return on investment would be a significant decision in the type of trees planted. As an individual, I would have limited options when planting trees, but as a State, they have time on their side. Do other states plant pine trees on their land purchases?

 

[rumwrks]

Trees grow at variable height rates determined by site conditions (soils, climate). The same species could be 70 feet in height at 40 years, or 40 feet in height at the same age on different sites. Height growth is site dependent, diameter growth is more dependent on climate and room to grow. A species that lives to 200+ years is by no means old at 40years.

This is true in spades. I have some doug fir that was all planted at the same time in the early 90's as part of a replant operation. The ones on good soil without to much competition are maybe 12"-18" at breast height, some of the ones half shaded out are only 3-4" (yes those should have been pre-commercial thinned 10yrs ago.. I just got the place.. working on it..), some that are a just a bit to thick are 6-8" but nice and tall (also thinning those) and some that were planted in either overly swampy or shallow soil are only 10-15' tall, 4" across and super scrubby or in some cases dead (those are getting cleared entirely and I'm turning that back into open meadow / shrub spaces).

 

[jyoutz]

Somewhat off-topic, When I was a kid 70+ years ago the state of Maryland bought several farms around us. I used to see deer eating in the Buckwheat fields at night. The State planted pine trees in the fields. These trees are 70 or more years old. I don't know what kind of pine. To the point, the trees are planted like crops. Relatively close together. They are 20 to 30 feet tall, the trunks are under 12". They provide good wildlife habitat. But I see no economic value other than pulpwood. Our paper mill shut down about 10 years ago. In 70 years there should have been some good hardwood trees bigger than that. I understand about the habitat, but I would think the return on investment would be a significant decision in the type of trees planted. As an individual, I would have limited options when planting trees, but as a State, they have time on their side. Do other states plant pine trees on their land purchases?

It depends on the land use planned, but yes state land/forestry departments do plant trees on lands intended for timber management. Those 70 years old trees are small diameter due to forest density. Sounds like the stand was never thinned.

 

[ruffdog]

Another thing with White Pine, if they are getting canker, they will get more brittle and lose limbs.

 

[jyoutz]

Another thing with White Pine, if they are getting canker, they will get more brittle and lose limbs.

White pine blister rust canker. This is a serious disease that typically kills the tree.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Another thing with White Pine, if they are getting canker, they will get more brittle and lose limbs.

I don't think that's what these have, although I went to school with a boy who had it on his hootie.

 

[mllud]

Another thing with White Pine, if they are getting canker, they will get more brittle and lose limbs.

I went out to visit a friend that has a row of a few white pines, and he has several limbs down similar size of fuddy's fallen limbs. We have had some high winds.
I have seen that canker on other species of pine and Cedar but not on white pine around this area.

 

[jyoutz]

I went out to visit a friend that has a row of a few white pines, and he has several limbs down similar size of fuddy's fallen limbs. We have had some high winds.
I have seen that canker on other species of pine and Cedar but not on white pine around this area.

The deadly blister rust canker only affects white pines.

 

[mllud]

Thanks
I did a just did a search about it. I see it kills everything past the affected area.
We had a lot of other species of pine trees dying for years in Missouri, some trees recovered. The limbs had red fungus but not like the photos shown of that red canker you're referring to.

I hoped that doesn't move through here. I see that Yellowstone has it bad.
Bugs and fungus.
I lost all my nice ash a few years ago to that Emerald ash borer. I suspect?
Imported bugs are costly.

 

[jyoutz]

Thanks
I did a just did a search about it. I see it kills everything past the affected area.
We had a lot of other species of pine trees dying for years in Missouri, some trees recovered. The limbs had red fungus but not like the photos shown of that red canker you're referring to.

I hoped that doesn't move through here. I see that Yellowstone has it bad.
Bugs and fungus.
I lost all my nice ash a few years ago to that Emerald ash borer. I suspect?
Imported bugs are costly.

White pine blister rust only affects white pines. Other species make have different cankers, but the blister rust usually kills the tree. The lodgepole pines in Yellowstone are being hit by bark beetles. Like white pines blister rust, the emerald ash borer is another exotic pest from Eurasia. The bark beetles in Yellowstone are native insects to North America.