Do I need a tractor?

jlemon · Apr 15, 2003

I've been lurking around the board for a while, soaking up everything I can, and also have Muhammed's book, but I'm still confused. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Last October I bought an older house on some land that used to be a dairy farm operation; it comes complete with silo, hay barn, dairy barn, hog shed, tobacco shed, silage bunker, and LOTS of concrete. As my CFO puts it, we bought some barns and they threw a house into the deal. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All of this is on 40 acres, which is roughly broken up into a 7 acre alfalfa/timothy(?) field, 10 acre pasture, ~12 acres of woods/forest (complete with poison ivy), and the rest is fairly hilly, neglected pasture surrounding the house and barns. The large pasture is reasonably level, while the alfalfa field has some moderate slopes. The house sits in the hilly area, surrounded by a lawn probably an acre in size.

My immediate concern is mowing; I don't think I want to try and do this with my little push lawnmower. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Burdock and Canadian thistle are busy taking hold all over the place, especially the hilly areas, and I want to start getting these under control.

The CFO wants to bring in horses after the burdock is gone, and she's threatening to bring in some scottish longhorns which she claims actually like to eat burdock, if I don't do anything about it. I'm not planning on doing any haying, and I figure I'm probably better off getting a real farmer (read: someone who knows what they're doing) to re-seed the alfalfa/grass if needed.

I was considering that perhaps I should get a dedicated ZTR mower to handle the mowing chores, which at this point, would be the primary purpose of buying a tractor. However, I'm not sure if a mower would handle the pastures/weeds that well, and I don't really want to buy two machines if I can avoid it. However, I don't have any other immediate chores for the tractor to do, so am slightly hestitant to buy something (TCxxD? L3x30? other?) until I know what I'll be using it for.

In theory, we have snow in the winter time, which means plowing, although I've seen very little of the white stuff lately here in Southern Wisconsin. There's also a dirt road going around the edges of the forest, which should probably be maintained at some point.

So, do I need a tractor, a mower, or should the fields just be left to their own for a year, at which point I'd presumably have a better idea of what needs to be done?

Confused /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

chrisjbell · Apr 15, 2003

This is an easy one...

You need a tractor. You have a pretty good sized place. Keeping weeds down is a worthwhile exercise, and even livestock won't always do it. I don't care about what they're supposed to eat - I've heard that goats, for example, will eat anything, but I can tell you for a fact that they eat the stuff you don't want them to eat long before they eat the (nasty) stuff you do want to eat.

Most ZTR mowers do not work well over rough territory. They are *great* for mowing large, reasonably smooth grass areas. There are industrial models that can handle more, but they start to get really expensive - getting into the neighborhood of what a tractor would cost. And they are single purpose machines - they mow, and that is all. If you have only finish mowing to consider, they might be a good choice.

But you have much more than that. You need a tractor with an FEL - the use you'll get out of it keeping your many buildings cleared out will be worth the price alone. Moving concrete? Uh, you do know that "hard labor" breaking and moving rocks is supposed to be worse than prison, right? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif If you have stuff to move, get yourself an FEL. Really.

I had a somewhat similar situation when I got here in that I had lots of rough work and not nearly as much finish mowing. My lawn is about 1/2 acre - when I got the place I bought a compact tractor with a brush hog and actually mowed the lawn with a push mower for a couple of years. The lawn tractor was a greatly appreciated new member of the family a couple of years ago, though /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

OK, get yourself a tractor. Get something with an FEL and probably a brush hog on the back. It'll be expensive. It'll be worth it. You'll get a lot of advice to "go big". I agree - I should have bought bigger. But what I have works just fine and most importantly I can't imagine what I'd have done without it. So if money is an issue, go smaller, but I'm quite certain that you want a tractor that has a 3 point hitch, at the very least.

Sounds like a really nice place you got. I'll be interested to see what you do after you get the peer pressure from all of us TBN fanatics /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif...

r0GuE · Apr 15, 2003

DO NOT get a ZTR! At the bare minimum get a BX22 (with backhoe) or BX2200 without BH, both with FEL. These are Kubota models but other manufacturers make similar (how polite I am) models. But you could easily justify a larger machine than that. The only reason I mention a BX2200 is the deck is the same as the ZTR model (60" cut) and it mows very nicely. Then if one day you need a monster for big ugly work, buy a used one for small dollars because your hours on that machine should be less than the close in work BX style machine that you will use the bulk of the time.
Sounds like a nice place there... have fun!

Bird · Apr 15, 2003

I agree with the other guys; you need a tractor with FEL and a brush hog at a minimum. Now a very small tractor (subcompact) might serve your purposes, but you'll wish you'd gotten a bigger one. I think there'll be times you want to get the tractor in and out of those barns and sheds, so I'd probably be looking at the doors to see how wide and tall the smallest is and buy something that will fit in there; probably could use a pretty good sized tractor if it has a folding ROPS even if you have some low doors.

RobS · Apr 15, 2003

I think you're asking the wrong question. Instead of "Do I need a tractor" you should be asking "How big a tractor do I need?" The answer to that will depend on what you intend to do with your land. Even basic lawn mowing, property line maintenance, snow plowing and such could justify a mid-sized CUT for that much space. If you intend to maintain a good chunk of the place with some livestock you could easily justify a small utility tractor with a riding lawn mower for grooming chores. Figure out how you want to keep your property and we'll have all sorts of tractor suggestions for you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

thcri · Apr 15, 2003

jlemon,

I have to agree with everyone else. You need a tractor. The sub-cut would even be kind of small. You are in southern Wisconsin and I know you can get a lot of snow there. If you stay in the 24-30 horsepower range you can do a lot and still do a pretty good job of finish mowing. I have a 29 horsepower and I do finish mowing with it, I just have to make sure it is dry out when mowing. I would look then at the R4 tires to help you some in the pastures and snow plowing. I think that range of HP is a good tractor for doing all of your chores. Not to small not to big. As far as mowing I also landscaped my lawn with a tractor for in mowing in mind. This eliminated a lot of trimming.

I personally would not go to the sub-cut but many people here would disagree with me, it is just me personal opinion. You may want to look into them but get out there and test drive some of them and tell your dealers what you want to do. Before you know it you will be getting comfortable with a decision.

murph

kofronj · Apr 15, 2003

jlemon,

I'll put another vote into the "you need a tractor" category. Either than, or 50 very cheap hired hands...

I'm just southeast of you in Kenosha county. I've got 8 acres of grass/prairie/oak savannah, and I've found that my BX2200 does most of what I need. I've got some stumps to dig, and I wished that the BX22 (the backhoe model) was out when I bought. That's pretty much my only regret.

For your needs, you could certainly go bigger, but I think you need to take some time and figure out what you're going to do with the land. Do you need to get inside tight buildings with the tractor? Are you going to end up farming the land, or just maintaining lawn, pastures, and doing some gardening.

If you're in the neighborhood, give me a holler and check out our place. When we moved in we had the perfect setting, except that there was burdock and thistle grown all over the property near the house (only about a half-acre of lawn). I've expanded it to about three with mowing, and it really looks nice. I did this without a tractor---I used my old trusty commercial JD walk-behind mower (54"), and just beat the weeds into submission. The nice thing about WI is that whereever you mow, you will end up with grasses of some sort. I imagine that you could put off your purchase for a year or two, if need be. I've got plans for our place, but they're still over a 10-year range, and we've been there six already.

The front-end loader is critical for all sorts of stuff. Moving soil, mulch, stuff. Light to moderate digging. Moving rocks and concrete. Beating multiflora rose into submission. Pounding in fence posts (really). You'll find a million things to do with it. It also sounds like a backhoe might be a very good investment for you. And then a finish mower and a brush hog, to round out the implements. Maybe a box blade or rear blade for the road.

Have fun with it. And you're always welcome to come down for a test drive if you're looking at the BX.

chrisjbell · Apr 15, 2003

I personally would not go to the sub-cut but many people here would disagree with me 

I may have given the impression that I was pushing for a sub-cut, but what I was really trying to do was push for something other than a ZTR /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. For the property described, get a good sized tractor - but Bird was right about making sure it will fit in the buildings that you want to clear out.

Soundguy · Apr 15, 2003

With 40 acres.. it isn't a matter of "if" you need a tractor.. it is how many do I need.. and what size...

Many go for a 'compact' in the 25-30ish hp range for 80 percent of the work.. and some get an old AG tractor for the once a year heavy projects...

Good luck. You are in the right place for information.

Soundguy

jlemon · Apr 15, 2003

Thanks for all the responses! I walked the field again today and it's fairly bumpy, so given what chrisjbell said about ZTRs requiring a flat terrain, that pretty much rules them out. I had mainly been considering them because they were cheap /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif and thought that if most of my duties were mowing, they might make sense.

I suppose as RobS said, I should be asking what size tractor I need, however, having no tractor experience, that's hard to answer. I just see mowing and general maintenance as the main duties. At the moment, the current planned livestock (for some time in the future) is 4-5 horses, plus some sheep and geese. Eventually I would need to add more fencing and smooth out/groom the forest roads as well as adding some more trails for riding.

I guess those tasks calls for a FEL and boxblade.

Bird: The largest building entrance is 12x10, while the smallest one is 8x8. I'm not sure I'll ever want to get a tractor in the smaller one, as there's plenty of storage/workspace area elsewhere.

kofronj: Your field description sounds like mine! Burdock, Thistle, multiflora rose, creeping charlie, and some kind of weedy ground cover with leaves the size of dinner plates. Oh yeah some grass too. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I've attached a couple of photos of the property:
back pasture in distance,
looking up the hill from the forest,
front lawn and front pasture

I was looking (drooling?) over the L3130 and TC33D, but really have no idea if that is the right size or not. Do I need to worry about the tractor & implements crushing my septic system in one of the side fields?

Bird · Apr 15, 2003

( I was looking (drooling?) over the L3130 and TC33D )

I think you're looking in the right direction, my personal opinion of course.

( Do I need to worry about the tractor & implements crushing my septic system in one of the side fields? )

Couldn't say for sure without knowing how it was constructed, how deep, etc., but probably not.

19th_VA · Apr 15, 2003

Beautiful land!

Gary_in_Indiana · Apr 15, 2003

The short answer is, "Yes, you do."

You probably need a compact tractor (as opposed to a sub-compact like the Kubota BX series). If you're not sure what to buy, why don't you consider renting something in the 25-35 HP range with a FEL and a five or six foot brush hog for a weekend? You can do some mowing in different fields, used the FEL for some other chores and, in general, just see what you think.

If you want to go smaller than what you rented (fat chance /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), you haven't invested $20,000 on something you don't need. If you want to go bigger, the same thing applies. If you decide what you rented is just about what you need in terms of size and utility then you can start the process of shopping for one to buy for yourself.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mark_in_NH · Apr 15, 2003

( Do I need a tractor? )
Oh My God !! What a question !!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Thats like asking if a Bear S**t's in the woods. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Of course you need a tractor, even if it's just to cruise that beautiful land you bought. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Your also going to need implements, Lots of implements.
Loader and Mowers and Rakes, Oh My !!
Loader and Mowers and Rakes, Oh My !!
Jlemon,
Welcome to the TBN. You have come to the right place for answers.You have also already received alot of good advice that I can't improve on, So I thought I would just throw in some good natured ribbing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RobS · Apr 15, 2003

Wow, very pretty place you've got there. Don't forget one of the most important aspects of tractor ownership... the pleasure of it all. A lot of people NEED a tractor/DEPEND on a tractor etc. but one of the reasons this forum is so popular is because so many of us ENJOY our tractors, and the things we do with them. In that regard, and given your property, if it was me I'd be looking at a pretty good sized CUT to MAXIMIZE the enjoyment /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JeepOne · Apr 15, 2003

Absolutely no doubt about it....you need a tractor!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Oh boy, do you need a tractor. Your place is expansive enough for you to get the largest tractor you can reasonably afford. You will not regret it. Please don't forget a FEL. It will go a long way in clearing that concrete and thistle.

Ken

chrisjbell · Apr 15, 2003

If you're not sure what to buy, why don't you consider renting something in the 25-35 HP range with a FEL and a five or six foot brush hog for a weekend? You can do some mowing in different fields, used the FEL for some other chores and, in general, just see what you think.


Now this is excellent advice. It'll cost you a couple hundred bucks a day, but that is 8 hours of tractor time. If you plan it right over a weekend you can spread those hours out over two days (Sunday is a freebie, but watch that hour meter /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif). If you really want to do some research (which is a good idea for such a pricey purchase), try renting a couple of different brands if you can.

The other thing you might be able to do, if you can find the right dealer, is to get a loaner. Some of them will do that if they think they can get a sale out of it. Worth a shot, at least.

What a beautiful place! I want your big red barn! If you ever get tired of it, please let me know and I'll send you my address /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

Oh, and with the dimensions of your doors, pretty much any tractor you'd be looking at will fit through them (although for the 8' door you might want to make sure you get a foldable ROPS [roll bar]).

Wow, you are going to have a great time there. Get yourself a nice, good sized tractor. I know they're expensive, but I'm sure that you won't regret it. Plus, they hold their value like you wouldn't believe. I wouldn't be surprised if I could sell my 6 year old tractor for darn near what I paid for it (but no, I need it /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

SteveM · Apr 16, 2003

I have nearly the same property as you, except with lots more snow. Anyhow, the missing ingredient in this discussion has been budget, and how you plan to finance these toys (cash, loans etc) the reason I mention this is because it makes a difference in regards to your flexibility. Most folks dont have much cash, so you end up financing a new unit, so that means you have to have just one tractor to try and do many different things. Bummer.

In a perfect world, i would recommend:

1 lawn tractor with hydrostatic drive - $2000 to $4000 new for mowing around the house, something your wife can use easily, etc. In my case this is the heaviest use pce of equipment.

1 Used 25hp compact with FEL, 4wd and hydro - min $12,500

1 Older 45hp farm tractor for large acre brush hogging, skidding heavy objects, etc - $5,000

This recipe would only be practical if you had a lump sum of cash, or possibly a home equity loan. Otherwise, you will be forced to find one tractor (B7800? TC29?) that can do everything, including finish mowing.

Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

John_Mc · Apr 16, 2003

( Eventually I would need to add more fencing and smooth out/groom the forest roads as well as adding some more trails for riding.

I guess those tasks calls for a FEL and boxblade.)

I've been using a TC33D w/ 5' brushhog and 6' boxblade to maintain 1300'+ of gravel road/driveway, and to create/maintain trails in our woods for walking/XC-skiing/horseback riding. I find the size works well for me. I would have gone larger (we have 80+ acres, plus help our neighbors with their 30 acres), but was concerned about maneuverability down some of the trails through the woods. The only thing I still have a tough time with is figuring out an easy way of dealing with the sapling stubble after brush-hogging. Once the trail has been established and kept up for a couple of years, it's not an issue, but that small stubble could wreak havoc on a horse's hoof if they stepped on it wrong. Often the boxblade will clear them out, but not always.

( The largest building entrance is 12x10, while the smallest one is 8x8. I'm not sure I'll ever want to get a tractor in the smaller one, as there's plenty of storage/workspace area elsewhere.)

The mid-sized NH CUTs (TC29 & TC33) will fit through an 8 x 8 door with no problem, you don't even have to fold the ROPS down (that's the size door I put on the building where I store my TC33D). Personally, I would not go much smaller than this for the tasks you describe... unless one of your PRIMARY uses was to manuever in tight spaces inside your buildings, for example). JD 4300/4310 is similar size and capabilty, as is the Kubota L3010 (I'm not sure about the newer Kubota 3130... I've heard it's a bit bigger than the L3010).

( Do I need to worry about the tractor & implements crushing my septic system in one of the side fields? )

Many folks drive right over their tanks and leach fields. I do not. It's not just a matter of crushing it. That's possible, but rare on a properly installed system. You also have a problem with soil compaction. Over time, this can greatly reduce the capacity of your system to handle wastewater flows. You can minimize this by keeping your equipment as light as possible, and not driving over it unless the soil is thoroughly dry. I have an old Craftsman garden tractor (i.e. a glorified riding mower) that I've kept for mowing up near the house and over the septic system.

John Mc

Anonymous Poster · Apr 16, 2003

"If you're not sure what to buy, why don't you consider renting something in the 25-35 HP range with a FEL and a five or six foot brush hog for a weekend? You can do some mowing in different fields, used the FEL for some other chores and, in general, just see what you think." 

jlemon,
This is good advice, but I would check with your local dealers and ask them if they will let you "try one out". All of the local dealers in my area (35 miles NW of Milwaukee) offered to deliver the tractor to my propery and let me try them for a week or so! at no cost.