DK-40 Starting issues

[tkh159]

Hello all I'm having some starting issues with my Kioti DK-40 and would appreciate any help or advice.

I had a dead battery so I bought a new so we are working with a NEW battery which for a while was doing fine.

I have read through the forums and tried some trouble shooting but nothing I have tried yet has worked. I'm sure I might be missing something.

Here's the symptoms. When I turn the key to all positions NOTHING happens no clicks, no lights ( even emergency flashers ) , and have no dash lights.

Here is what I have checked with a multimeter and they are fine:

battery
connection to battery posts tight and clean, same with the ground wire.
alternator
60 amp slow-blow fuse
ALL fuses in the fuse box
Three relays, ignition, preheat and engine stop.
All positions of the key switch


I have came across in the forum about a safety switch relay but I'm not sure where this relay or device is??? I do know that the tractor won't start if this device is defective BUT will the dash lights and other electrical components still work is the safety switch is defective?

I also may suspect maybe a "timer relay" I saw it by looking through my electrical schematics and its a part I can see but will be a beast to get too. Also in the trouble shooting guide on my book it mentions this part.

My clutch seems to be working fine I assume but the rod that is behind it that is in a vertical position is rather loose with a lot of play???

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE

Yesterday after putting in the new batter I was able to run the tractor. I repeated this step three times with 5 minute intervals. I decided to disconnect the battery and come back in hour welllllll the tractor started up just fine however the second time I it did not crank and this is only after 5 mins.

So basically sometimes it will start and others times it won't. I'm very confused :mur:

 

[Looking4new]

Have you checked out the ignition switch? If no, then try squirting some fluid film into the keyhole and then try starting it. Some on here have been complaining about the same thing. I, myself have the same problems and I use the FF route. They say the switches are repairable. I am just going to replace mine.

 

[Fuggley]

Intermittent problems are the worst eh? You might try unbolting the battery ground cable from where it is connected to the tractor frame and scrape clean a good metal connection there before you reattach. The battery ground cable is a cheap replacement too as those are known to corrode internally. Probably something simple... good luck hunting.

 

[tkh159]

As far as the ignition switch I replaced it last year. I tested each position of the switch to ensure there was connection and all worked fine.
Ground wire looks good but I got a wire brush after it and still no good.

With NO electrical anything working wonder what the problem is?

 

[ritcheyvs]

Sounds like a bad battery cable. These often fail inside the insulation such that they look completely normal despite intermittent conductivity. Moving/bending the cable (like when changing the battery) will sometimes restore (or disrupt) the internal connection for a time. Troubleshoot by using a good battery jumper cable to bypass eack battery cable. The fact the emergency flashers don't work implies the key switch isn't the main problem.

 

[Coyote machine]

Twice your battery cable, especially the ground cable from battery to frame has been cited as a possible cause.
I concur with Ritcheyvs that you should take a good pair of jumper cables and use the ground side cable to attach one clamp end at the negative post of your battery and the other to a solid bare metal ground on the chassis/frame of the tractor. Then try the key to start. If you have a multimeter connect it to the posts of the battery and see what it reads before and DURING turning the key through it's positions including crank. Give us those readings, and the year of your DK, it's hours on the clock, etc. Also, just to be sure, make sure the PTO is switched OFF and cruise control tooso to cover all the bases.
Also check the cruise control unit, under the floor on the left side of the station to make sure it's connection is snug, and not damaged in any way.

 

[jpm1]

definately start by changing both battery cables,,,

 

[tkh159]

Twice your battery cable, especially the ground cable from battery to frame has been cited as a possible cause.
I concur with Ritcheyvs that you should take a good pair of jumper cables and use the ground side cable to attach one clamp end at the negative post of your battery and the other to a solid bare metal ground on the chassis/frame of the tractor. Then try the key to start. If you have a multimeter connect it to the posts of the battery and see what it reads before and DURING turning the key through it's positions including crank. Give us those readings, and the year of your DK, it's hours on the clock, etc. Also, just to be sure, make sure the PTO is switched OFF and cruise control tooso to cover all the bases.
Also check the cruise control unit, under the floor on the left side of the station to make sure it's connection is snug, and not damaged in any way.

Thanks for the info. The year is 2005 only has a little over 500 hours.

Need to wait on the rain to stop to go out again.

 

[tkh159]

While we wait on better weather I would like to mention a detail I forgot to say.
With the new battery that I currently have when I put the cables on all was fine HOWEVER when placing the negative cable on the battery post there was an ark???

Well the tractor started up fine with a reading of 12.80 volts. So this was thursday evening and everything eletrical worked fine. Saturday morning the battery was 8.50??? It would not start. Oddly enough though I put it on a battery charger and it read 12 and some change volts but amps were shot so charged it at a slow 2.0 amps.

Put it on the tractor and there was some ark yet again??? Tractor started fine a few times but at other times it didn't start at all. dead since then.

Long story short I wish I could remember when the battery cables would and when they wouldn't ark to determine if it had anything to do with cranking??? That would help lead to bad cables as many have mentioned above. In the mean time I'll use some jumper cables.

This also makes me believe that something is pulling current some where??? Thanks all!

 

[murphy1244]

If your cables are corroded they will pull more amps through them and heat up.

 

[k0ua]

There should NOT be a spark when connecting the battery cables with everything on the tractor turned off. IF there is an arc or spark that indicates that current is being drawn from the battery. You can measure that current with the AMP function of your multimeter. Hopefully you will have a 10 amp scale on your meter and you can start there. Current is measured in series from the battery post to the battery lead. With everything turned off (no lights, key switch off, no emergency flashers etc) the current should be near zero amps.

 

[tkh159]

If your cables are corroded they will pull more amps through them and heat up.

Oh that's good to know! Thanks

 

[tkh159]

There should NOT be a spark when connecting the battery cables with everything on the tractor turned off. IF there is an arc or spark that indicates that current is being drawn from the battery. You can measure that current with the AMP function of your multimeter. Hopefully you will have a 10 amp scale on your meter and you can start there. Current is measured in series from the battery post to the battery lead. With everything turned off (no lights, key switch off, no emergency flashers etc) the current should be near zero amps.

So any more than 10 amp something is pulling current? I'll check that as well. Thank you.

 

[k0ua]

So any more than 10 amp something is pulling current? I'll check that as well. Thank you.

No, 10 amps would be a tremendous load. The current load should be near zero amps. I advised to start on the 10 amp scale, the largest scale you are likely to have on your Volt Ohm Milliampere meter. As you do not know what the current draw is, always start on the highest scale and work down from there. Until you measure the static current draw, you are guessing. If you measure the current draw, you will know if your battery is being discharged by some fault in the tractor's electrical system or not.

 

[k0ua]

I am guessing here, but by the responses I get, that there might be some confusion on the procedures to measure current with a VOM. It is NOT like measuring voltage where the probes are placed in parallel with a voltage source. Current is measured in series from the source to the load. Polarity must be observed with the leads, and consideration must be given to the likely current flowing in the circuit and the proper shunt in the meter, else meter damage will occur. If you didn't understand what I said and don't understand the concepts of Voltage, Current and Resistance and how they interact, then your chances of making proper safe measurements and making the proper analysis of the results will be low.

 

[murphy1244]

You need to measure going through your meter. Meaning one probe on the battery and one on the cable. Meter on 10 amp DC scale. .

 

[tkh159]

Awesome advice. I was a bit confused there for a minute. Now just need the time to trouble shoot.

 

[murphy1244]

Don't be confused, Ask us...

 

[tkh159]

I am guessing here, but by the responses I get, that there might be some confusion on the procedures to measure current with a VOM. It is NOT like measuring voltage where the probes are placed in parallel with a voltage source. Current is measured in series from the source to the load. Polarity must be observed with the leads, and consideration must be given to the likely current flowing in the circuit and the proper shunt in the meter, else meter damage will occur. If you didn't understand what I said and don't understand the concepts of Voltage, Current and Resistance and how they interact, then your chances of making proper safe measurements and making the proper analysis of the results will be low.

I was using my meter more or less for voltage on the battery. The relays and ignition switch I used the meter as well to ensure there was "connection" as if there isn't any connection the meter won't beep. With the relays I took it a step further and took them off got some wire and plugged the wires corretly to the relay and took the bare wire and set them on the battery posts to feel and listen for the relay to ensure it worked.

Basically I user the meter for voltage and need to do a little reading on amperage.

 

[ritcheyvs]

James is correct. With the key switch off, there should be ZERO current from the battery and certainly no spark. The only load that could deplete the battery so quickly is the glow plugs.

Using an ammeter (multimeter measuring amps) is tricky and it's easy to ruin an the meter(or blow the fuse) if you connect it the wrong way. Furthermore, if it is the glow plugs draining the battery, they will draw more than the 10 amp, which is the maximum capacity of most budget multimeters.

I normally recommend folks start troubleshooting with a meter but in this case I think you should first locate and disconnect the glow relay (on the firewall) and see if that stops the current drain. It's possible the relay contacts welded causing the relay to power the glow plugs continuously. It's also possible that something is wrong with the circuit that powers the glow relay. In either case, pulling the connector from that relay will ensure the glow plugs are not drawing current. Then you can check for other possible parasitic loads on the battery with the multimeter.

Scott