Disapointed with KTC

[ModMech]

I realize the big manufacturers must get hundreds of communications per day and that people respond to them and mistakes can be made but........

Our B2410, like MANY other KTC products, has the dreaded "dead steering" disease when the fluid gets hot. This is a known and well documented concern on this and multiple other KTC models. In fact, KTC has issued a letter and repair kit for this very concern.

Our tractor has had this for a very long time, the previous owner asked the selling dealer to look at it and was told "keep the engine speed up, it's too slow". That is NOT right, the PS system should work correctly at any RPM. This unit should have been fixed years ago and under warranty, but they dodged it. So, getting tired of this in 100+*F degrees, I wrote KTC to explain the problem.

Not only did they not offer guidance, any form of explanation as to why they will not assist their customer, they cannot even be bothered to respond.

We understand we are not the original purchasers and that may play a significant role in their participation in the repair, but to COMPLETELY IGNORE an owner is worse than poor customer service, it is NO customer service. In our eyes, their lack of caring or consideration elevates this to a situation of customer DIS-service. To completely refuse to discuss a problem with a customer, original purchaser or not is utterly absurd.

This will STRONGLY influence future purchase decisions and you should be aware that apparently KTC feels ZERO responsibility to it's customers or for it's products unless they bought a NEW tractor from a dealer.

 

[arsenix2001]

Ill agree ive had 4 kubota products, and while normally well built.. if there is an off the wall issue you can bet first thing ktc will do is deny it.

 

[ModMech]

1) I have spoken with TWO dealers about this.
2) One said they have never heard of this (which I believe is a lie, they sell way too many units for me to be the first) and the other suggested that it required "maintenance" (another lie).
3) KTC has a BULLITIN on this very issue, it is a known "design flaw" if you will, relating to the hydraulic plumbing.
4) KTC developed a kit to re-route the fluid return from the PS to the rear HST reservoir which solves the problem.
5) The Hyd fluid is NOT over heating, this condition can happen at 20*F or 120*F, once the hydraulic fluid is warm.

Obviously the two dealers I checked with don't keep up on the service bullitins, the selling dealer is no longer in business and the "good" dealer is two hours away

In any event, no manufacturer should IGNORE a customer, to do so is at best very discourteous and worse alienating to the customer.

Let me be plain, it is my opinion that a response stating:

"We are sorry you have been experiencing difficulties with your 10 year old KTC product that you bought used. We do not care, go away."

Is EXACTLY what a customer would normally infer from receiving no response to their communication and certainly how I see it.

 

[johnrex62]

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but where do you find these service bulletins? I searched the forums for this problem and do not find anyone else discussing it. If it is so prevalent I would expect to find numerous threads with the symptoms or at least references to the B2410 having some steering symptoms. The only thing I found was a few other models folk report having issues related to air in the system or specific defective components, nothing heat related or fluid related.

I would be interested in knowing the conditions under which this problem might occur since you indicated it happens in many models. Why is everyone keeping it hush hush on the forums? Usually folks like to pile on when a problem is noticed.

 

[Alan L.]

I have a B2710, great tractor. When it was a year old the power steering would fail after brush hogging in 97 and up temps. The dealer kept the tractor for a couple weeks and declared they couldn't duplicate the problem. I got ahold of the regional service manager who supposedly checked it out while it was there and that is what he also said. Yet every time I brush hogged for at least 2 hours in 97+ heat the power steering would fail. I could idle it a while to cool it down and it would improve, then fail again after a few minutes use. They basically called me a liar, that they couldn't duplicate it therefore it must not be happening. Fact is they were not running it near long enough to make if fail.

Probably a year later, after the tractor was out of warranty, the regional rep said he thought they had a fix. Fix for what? Hmm.... Anyway, I took it in and they re-did the hydraulic lines, where I ended up with two filters rather than one filter and one screen. Problem solved.

Tractor is 12 years old and works great.

 

[Stargazer]

Hi Disagree with this This will STRONGLY influence future purchase decisions and you should be aware that apparently KTC feels ZERO responsibility to it's customers or for it's products unless they bought a NEW tractor from a dealer.


Even new doesn't matter even after many e-mails 2 KTC and bugging dealer 2-3 times per week for couple months to get OWNERS (not WSM) manuals for bx23 and deck. No not under seat. Finally enough pest dealer got but wanted me to pay about $40 for it and then it was missing pages. Lets just say do most stuff online now no tax vs shipping about wash.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Just out of curiosity... what where you emailing Kubota about? That maybe a a large part of the reason why your not getting a response. You should be working though a dealer, thats our job. You don't go calling Ford with your truck is broke.

 

[Stargazer]

Neil I did start with the new selling dealer and salesman basically blew me off 4 weeks. So I then tried ktc with basically same result other than pap about you r important to us. I thought part of being a kub dealer was that a owner manual was to be with equip even used. Am I wrong??? Basically my dealers attitude is once I's got your money you can put your hand on your ***., Since I bought new he has only got $35 more dollars out of me $10 of that was for sudt as never was full at delivery. And had to ask repeatly for more than 1 key, 2 comes normal correct??? I do most parts (when needed, seldom) from you. And as of last year salesman was still working for them and it's paid off in Aug this year.

PR

 

[ultrarunner]

In another life I did a number of Vehicle Arbitration Cases under the Lemon Law...

There is a process to work through... mostly to document the problem and repair attempts.

If the problem remains unresolved, the matter is escalated... by either the Dealer or Owner.

A problem occurs when local Dealers are no longer in business and there may not be a Dealer in several nearby counties with population measured in the millions.

My Dealer, and my next closest two Dealers are no longer in business...

I've found it best to thoroughly document the entire process... for safety critical issues... it can easily be argued that one failed repair attempt is sufficient to escalate above the Dealer level... loss of steering would qualify if I was deciding a case.

I've seen cases where the manufacturer would bear little to no responsibility be resolved because the Dealer and/or Manufacturer went above and beyond...

The key is to give all parties a reason to "Want" to assist... be it a good customer, a repeat customer and even a customer that is politely persistent...

 

[keyman1808]

I cant say about the manual but only 1 key came with my NEW BX24. I would assume that being used you get whatever came with the machine in the trade kinda like a used car.

But not to highjack the thread I have a question for the dealers out there, If a customer comes into your shop and orders a part. Lets say its a boot for a mowing deck and its not in stock so you order it. Part comes in and lists for say 200.00. Now you charge the customer the 200.00 but do you also tack on the shipping costs that kubota charged you to get the part?? Just curious as one of my local dealers did that to me. I assumed that shipping to your office was part of the price of the part. Maybe I'm wrong but if this is standard practice why bother buying local if you still pay the shipping. I could buy from Messicks or Barlows still pay the shipping and never have to leave the office to go and pick it up (which apparently I will do now because I save nothing). Just curious.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I cant say about the manual but only 1 key came with my NEW BX24. I would assume that being used you get whatever came with the machine in the trade kinda like a used car.

Any new tractor comes with manuals (of course) and two keys.

For freight on a parts order, it depends on how you order. With us, we don't charge inbound freight for stock or regular orders, however if its an emergency order, drop ship, etc... there are extra fee's charged by the OEM so they are passed along. It all depends on how urgent your need is.

If your not getting satisfaction at one dealer, take your tractor and your money to another (We're happy to help :thumbsup. There are 1100+ Kubota dealers. Kubota corporate (and every other brand we represent) is not setup to provide front line support, especialy when it comes to concerns about older equipment. They are not totaly unresponsive, but when you email about things like a steering gearbox on a 10 year old tractor... I'm not sure what they would be doing for you?

 

[keyman1808]

Was no rush order. I would have understood if it was a rush special order. Just went in and ordered said 3 days but turned out to be 3 weeks. Thanks for your insight. BTW I will be ordering from you as it does not benefit me to take time from work to drive 35 minutes each way to thier shop and still be charged the freight when I can have it shipped to my door for the same. Thanks for your honesty

 

[thavil]

But not to highjack the thread I have a question for the dealers out there, If a customer comes into your shop and orders a part. Lets say its a boot for a mowing deck and its not in stock so you order it. Part comes in and lists for say 200.00. Now you charge the customer the 200.00 but do you also tack on the shipping costs that kubota charged you to get the part?? Just curious as one of my local dealers did that to me. I assumed that shipping to your office was part of the price of the part. Maybe I'm wrong but if this is standard practice why bother buying local if you still pay the shipping. I could buy from Messicks or Barlows still pay the shipping and never have to leave the office to go and pick it up (which apparently I will do now because I save nothing). Just curious.

I recently purchased arm rests for my BX24 from my local dealer and they arrived 3 days later. Written on the box was the price for freight and that cost was passed onto me, along with the cost of the arm rests and tax. I thought this wasn't right but I didn't say anything. I think I will order online from now on even though I like supporting my local dealer.

 

[Texas Fella]

Back to the original thread: How long ago did you write to KTC? I do know from experience that it can take awhile for a letter to work to the people who actually answer the customers. Just curious. Also, who is your current (not closed) local dealer?

 

[Stargazer]

it was new well 1.7 hrs think they played/loaded etc. Neil lets just say not ALL dealers are like you (good)

 

[fredhargis]

I, too, wrote KTC about a problem. For me it was tough just finding where to write (these are snail mail letters, I've found e-mails to be generally ineffective with other companies so passed them up with Kubota). I wound up sending 2, one to the regional office (Columbus, OH for me) the second to Torrance CA. I was referred to go to my dealer (in writing). My impression is that KTC does not want to deal with the consumers, and it almost looks to me that resolving a lot of problems comes out of dealer's pockets....which may explain some variation in the results we all have with problems. In my case, I kept getting nowhere, and also kept writing letters. I was finally "rewarded" with a phone call from a KTC regional manager that assured me my problem would be handled. In the meantime my Dealer also told me it would be fixed, he "finally got Kubota to admit to a mistake on their part" and apparently agreed to foot the bill. I am indeed disappointed with all this.

 

[orangebluegreen]

I also had this problem with my B2410. Mine was built around year 2000 and I bought it used June/2006 with 275 hours on the meter and in perfect condition. I agree with the notion it should have been fixed for the previous owner through recall. There was no recall on this machine according to my local dealer. They call the fix for this problem an "option". Only last year on another Kubota related forum did I find the fix. The fix does appear to work. I did it at the end of last years mowing season so have little time with very long hard mowing and so far the grass hasn't started growing yet this year, but it does appear to have worked and my steering does not fade away like it had. I'll know better in about a month once our rainy season starts. I did get response to my email sent to Kubota but it was the typical "sorry we can't do anything on a 10 yr old machine" variety. When I voiced my displeasure in no uncertain terms, I did get a call from Dennis Hood who is handling response to this issue. He was willing to discuss it fully and offer advice, but not in free parts. I suppose if one really pushed the issue they could win, but it's easy enough to just make your own fix as I did pictured in the following post.

Btw...the email I received from Kubota was named "Customer Satisfaction". Not sure how satisfied they expect us to be when they deny the parts for free to fix their design problem. I wasn't even asking for labor, just the parts.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ransmission-power-steering-5.html#post2157098

 

[orangebluegreen]

Not sure how TBN feels about links to other sites so I'll put the link where I found the fix in this post and if they see fit to delete it, so be it.

B2410 Jerky steering - OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

 

[Stargazer]

Neil: Going back to a prior ?. Besides being a dealer/absent dealer contact haha/finance how does a owner find out about the service bulletins??? Only because of this web site found out about new seat and got from carver/carter?? sponsor (think now outta bus bummer). Understand K's/dealer wanting 2 keep quiet for $ but you might want to mention to rep/dealer mtg (this fall??) 4 pr purpose. Auto people have web site. Basically did what ewe said took $ and walked elsewhere, problem is only 1 dealer in area (3+ together) next 1.5 hr drive 1 way. Want 2 open branch site in dsm ia??? Don't get me wrong happy with physical Trac just not dealer who wants 2 sell Bcat stuff regardless of state fair booth mho/ymmv.

PR

Neil we can always take offline and pm me realize not your spec problem but read about other comment maybe only 5-10% ***** so how many keep quiet. I live in land of JD and for $/what could get 4 $ went K

 

[jimbo64]

i was once told by the owner of one of the largest car dealerships in central pa that a disatisfied customer no matter what the issue would cost them 15/20 sales as the customer would tell family/friends about his unsatisfactory experience and they would also tell family and friends what a piece of garbage the dealer/product was. Their attitude was the customer is pretty much always right-maybe thats how they got so big.