Oil & Fuel Diesel is clouded again!!

[Evil the Weasel]

I give up. I switched from Power Service to Howe's and it made little difference. There is gelling on the filter element and the fuel I can see in the sediment bowl is cloudy. We're hovering around zero here, and I don't have heat in the barn (yet). This is road diesel. Maybe I got a crappy batch. The tractor still runs for now.

 

[Chessie]

Hi,
Most likely non winterized fuel. Suggest putting in a couple of gallons of K1 kero in the fuel tank. that will solve the crap fuel problem. run the tractor over some rough terrain to stir things up after you add the Kero.
Jeff

 

[smfcpacfp]

Don't give up, use #1 diesel - the simple solution. It has a cloud point of -40 F. I wouldn't be using my diesel vehicles at temperatures below that unless it was an emergency. It is the wax in diesel that gives it good lubricating qualities, and causes gelling. #1 has less wax (hence a lower cloud point). So many recommend using one of the additives that you see mentioned. I use Opti-Lube XPD which in a recent test had the best lubricating qualities of the additives.

I kind of chuckle at some of the people on the forum from a southern state who say that they use an additive in #2 and have never had a problem. Of course not, cold for them is 20 degrees. If I did that where I live near the Lake Superior coast at -30 F, I can promise you my tractor would have gelled fuel.

Using additives to stop #2 fuel or "winterized fuel" from gelling is risky. By the way, what is the cloud point of winterized fuel? If you don't know and the dealer doesn't know then you are gambling. How much additive do you have to add at -25F verses 0F? The additives say to use X quantity of additive to treat X quantity of fuel and don't even mention the temperaure issue. But given there are different fuels and different temperatures possible, you really have no idea where you stand cloud point wise after you have treated your fuel.

Like I said, do yourself a favor and use a fuel with known gelling features (#1 diesel), rather than playing a guessing game with additives. Sounds like you have spent, and are going to spend a lot of time and money getting your tractor running again. In the future spend your time and money finding #1 diesel and paying a little more a gallon for it.

The best way to deal with a diesel vehicle that is all gelled up is to take inside a warm place, let the fuel ungell and get as much of that fuel out and replace it with #1 until warm weather is here.

 

[Volfandt]

kind of chuckle at some of the people on the forum from a southern state who say that they use an additive in #2 and have never had a problem. Of course not, cold for them is 20 degrees.

You're darn right 20 degrees is cold

Down "south" here in the valley we had been hovering around 14 degrees for nearly a week and the diesel I purchased this past fall was fine and hasn't clouded or gelled. I had to get the BX out and do alittle maintenance during the cold spell. brrrr it was cold
I don't know if it's #1 or #2 but I did treat it with PS in the white bottle.
My tractor sit's in an unheated garage also.

Almost sounds like the OP has got a bad batch of fuel and/or is purchasing the fuel from a water contaminated source, but I defer to you northern cold climate experts.

I've been told by several sources that we get a lower "quality" of both gas & diesel during the winter as the premium juice is needed to keep you "yankees" going
Course we understand as we don't want any of that "cold" weather making it's way down here...... You can keep the snow too
About the only time I want to be out and about in 20 degree (or lower) weather is at a championship ball game or when chasing Mamasan

 

[Evil the Weasel]

I'm not opposed to paying the shot for #1 diesel. I just don't know where to get it (yet). Thanks for the replies folks.

 

[LBrown59]

I'm not opposed to paying the shot for #1 diesel. I just don't know where to get it (yet). Thanks for the replies folks.

Where are you getting #2 fuel now in the dead of winter?
#1 is the only fuel available In About every place in the country except the more southern states.
Are you running fuel you had left over from lasr summer?
That's about the only way I can think of that you could be running #2 !

 

[George2615]

Don't know where you are in Central NY but most any truck stop has both #1 and #2 diesel. I'm in CNY also and get mine at the local truck stop in my town. They do a high volume and haven't had a bad batch yet.
There's a truck stop in Central Square or West Monroe, and Syracuse has several. If you don't have a truckstop nearby then buy some #1 or K1 kerosene and mix it with your #2 diesel using a 50/50 mix and add power service or something similar to it.


Qoute: Where are you getting #2 fuel now in the dead of winter?
#1 is the only fuel available In About every place in the country except the more southern states.
Are you running fuel you had left over from lasr summer?
That's about the only way I can think of that you could be running #2 !

Truck stops in CNY have both #1 and #2 diesel pumps.

 

[Evil the Weasel]

I don't know if it's #2. Let's just say I bought it recently so it should be #1. I just called an area fuel distributor that has blended road and off-road diesel. They aren't having any problems with their customers. Unfortunately, I can't get it from them unless I have a tank and delivery and I just don't use enough to justify it. I read about adding 10% kero but also the warnings due to the lack of lubricity in it and the different flash point, etc.

 

[Gator6x4]

This information is posted as information only. It is not a recommendation for Power Service nor a particular number Diesel fuel.

Source: Power Service Products, diesel fuel additives, prevent gelling

Diesel Fuel Supplement® +Cetane Boost® is our antigel product – it provides superior protection for cold-weather operability. This is the product to use during the winter months to prevent fuel gelling down to -40°F. and equal the performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels.

Source Internet:

The differences between Kerosene, #1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, heavier fuel oils, gasoline, etc. are the types of hydrocarbon chains that are separated and concentrated during refining and additives. Kerosene has a lower BTU content than #2 diesel fuel which results in a decrease in engine power and fuel economy. Kerosene contains less cetane than #2 diesel fuel. Cetane is the most universally accepted measure of diesel fuel ignition quality. Kerosene also contains less lubricity than #2 diesel fuel. Diesel fuel lubricity is a major concern because of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD). ULSD contains significantly less lubricity than Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD). As a result, metal components in the engine fuel system, including fuel pumps and injectors, are susceptible to premature failure

 

[George2615]

Check your owners manual for cold weather operation. I have a Mahindra and the my manual says it is acceptable to mix #1 and #2 diesel for use in very cold temps. You can always add extra PS additive for lubricating properties. I don't use a lot of fuel so only buy it in five gallon jugs. I mix #1 and 2 every winter for mine.

 

[LBrown59]

1* use #1 diesel - the simple solution. It has a cloud point of -40 F. I

1*Then why are so many reporting problems with it at temperatures much higher than Minus 40?

 

[Evil the Weasel]

Diesel Fuel Supplementｮ +Cetane Boostｮ is our antigel product it provides superior protection for cold-weather operability. This is the product to use during the winter months to prevent fuel gelling down to -40ｰF. and equal the performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels.

If Power Service is equivalent to that diesel blend, then I'm really hosed. I gelled up worse with the power service the last time it happened. I just got home from work and the filter looks worse than this morning. We're at about 20 deg right now. Tomorrow is supposed to be a big warm up so I'm going to replace the filter and find a new source for diesel.

 

[smfcpacfp]

Diesel Fuel Supplementï½® +Cetane Boostï½® is our antigel product it provides superior protection for cold-weather operability. This is the product to use during the winter months to prevent fuel gelling down to -40ï½°F. and equal the performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels.

I have got to tell you this makes no sense. If the peformance they are talking about is cloud point.

#2 diesel - cloud point +40
#1 diesel - cloud point -40

When you mix 50% #1 and 50% #2, you get a cloud point of 0, not -40F.

Also when they say This is the product to use during the winter months to prevent fuel gelling down to -40ï½°F., what grade of diesel are they talking about #1 or #2. If they are talking about #1, I am unimpressed since it doesn't gel until -40F in any event.

 

[smfcpacfp]

1*Then why are so many reporting problems with it at temperatures much higher than Minus 40?

Who are the many you speak of? Can you name one of the many?

In any event the answer is simple, they aren't using pure #1 diesel.

A question for anyone who knows. Do some 18 Wheeler type trucks have heaters in the fuel sytem that allow them to run #2 in cold temperatures? I though a trucker told me that once

 

[EE_Bota]

This site:

Recommended Guideline on Diesel Fuel

looks pretty good for giving good explanations of fuel properties.

One point I thought was interesting...they claim the retailer's supplier is responsible for keeping the fuel usable, and often will adjust it on a monthly basis based on expected temperatures.

One member asked if you were using old fuel. One would think that if you use fresh fuel from a reputable distributors, your fuel will be fine. This makes sense to me because for it to be otherwise would chaos.

 

[JoeL4330]

you can buy aftermarket filters that have heaters (Raycor, e.g.) and as the tractor runs the fuel return puts warmer fuel back into the tank...

if you go to the power service website you can see their arctic stuff, which is like the kero with which you can blend your own. and, note that PS in the gray container does not (not) have anti-gel properties.

You may (also) have water in the fuel ...truck worry about this, too and my superduty and older diesel suburban each have fuel-water separators that should be drained once a month

on your tractor, look for a cute little bubble in your filter bowl and/or drain some fuel from lowest point into clear container and check ...aftermarket filter installations can also include water separators w. warning light. Power service 911 will take care of some water and "de-gel" fuel at cold temps.

 

[LBrown59]

*One member asked if you were using old fuel.
**One would think that if you use fresh fuel from a reputable distributors, your fuel will be fine. This makes sense to me because for it to be otherwise would chaos.

*I think that was me.
I still have last summers #2 blend in my tractors because that's what I had left in this set up when winter hit.

I treated it with .58 OZ. of power service per gallon been working fine so far this winter.
**That's is correct,but I haven't bought any winter blend this year as I am still using last summers summer blend that I had left over.

 

[Evil the Weasel]

you can buy aftermarket filters that have heaters (Raycor, e.g.) and as the tractor runs the fuel return puts warmer fuel back into the tank...

if you go to the power service website you can see their arctic stuff, which is like the kero with which you can blend your own. and, note that PS in the gray container does not (not) have anti-gel properties.

You may (also) have water in the fuel ...truck worry about this, too and my superduty and older diesel suburban each have fuel-water separators that should be drained once a month

on your tractor, look for a cute little bubble in your filter bowl and/or drain some fuel from lowest point into clear container and check ...aftermarket filter installations can also include water separators w. warning light. Power service 911 will take care of some water and "de-gel" fuel at cold temps.

Thanks for this info. I'm fairly certain it is not a water problem. The diesel came from a convenience store. I'm in a rural area so who knows how fresh it is or whether it's leftover from Summer.

 

[LBrown59]

1*Who are the many you speak of?
2*In any event the answer is simple, they aren't using pure #1 diesel.

1* I guess everybody who's started a thread on TBN in the past few weeks about having gelling problems.
How did you miss them?
2* What do you mean by Pure #1 diesel?
Around here we have #2 in the summer and #1 in the winter.
It don't get any purer or simpler than that.

 

[LBrown59]

Truck stops in CNY have both #1 and #2 diesel pumps.

Why do they still have #2 summer blend in the dead of winter?
All we have is #1 winter blend.
#2 summer blend won't be available till spring.