Loader Determining FEL lift capacity

[HobbleCreek]

I thought this question might have been answered previously but several minutes of search have not yielded an answer. I am wondering whether my 4720 with a 400x loader can lift 1850 lb. hay bales high enough to stack them three high. That would put the bottom of the highest bale at 8 feet. The FEL capacities listed by Deere are:

Lift capacity at full height, lb. (kg) ---
Measured at pivot (U) 2368 (1074)
Measured at 500 mm ahead of pivot (V) 1742 (790)
Measured at 800 mm ahead of pivot (V)
---
Lift capacity at 59 in. (1500 mm), lb. (kg) ---
Measured at pivot (W) 2734 (1240)
Measured at 500 mm ahead of pivot (X) 2181 (981)
Measured at 800 mm ahead of pivot (X)
---

I'm not sure what is meant by "at pivot" and therefore don't know where 500 mm ahead of pivot would be. I'm sorry if this is a knuckle head question.

Thanks,

 

[Zebrafive]

Pivot is your lower bucket pin, or the pin at the end of your loader boom.

 

[arlen4720]

I thought this question might have been answered previously but several minutes of search have not yielded an answer. I am wondering whether my 4720 with a 400x loader can lift 1850 lb. hay bales high enough to stack them three high. That would put the bottom of the highest bale at 8 feet. The FEL capacities listed by Deere are:

Lift capacity at full height, lb. (kg) ---
Measured at pivot (U) 2368 (1074)
Measured at 500 mm ahead of pivot (V) 1742 (790)
Measured at 800 mm ahead of pivot (V)
---
Lift capacity at 59 in. (1500 mm), lb. (kg) ---
Measured at pivot (W) 2734 (1240)
Measured at 500 mm ahead of pivot (X) 2181 (981)
Measured at 800 mm ahead of pivot (X)
---

I'm not sure what is meant by "at pivot" and therefore don't know where 500 mm ahead of pivot would be. I'm sorry if this is a knuckle head question.

Thanks,

My 4720 with a 400cx will get the pivot to a little over 9 ft. With my bale spear, that would have the bottom of the bale at about 8.5 to 8.75 feet. I'm sure if you choose your bale handling implement carefully, you will be good height wise. Make sure you have plenty of ballast I think you will have more trouble with weight than height, since the bale spear will be over 300 lbs, and the load will be forward of the pivot. I think you will have a useful lift somewhere around 1500 or 1600 lbs

 

[HobbleCreek]

Thank you both. That is helpful information. I agree that weight is the bigger issue than height. The reason I included the height issue is that it appears from the JD table that my lifting capacity decreases as I go higher.

Also, any suggestions on figuring the proper amount of ballast? I agree that's critical. Will my backhoe attachment be enough?

 

[LD1]

I posted in the other thread you just asked a question in, so I'll keep this reply a little shorter now that I know why you are asking...

First, It all depends on what type of hay spear you are using. Are you using one that you take the bucket OFF to use, or are you using one that clamps on the bucket. IF you use one that clamps on the bucket, I would say that you will get NOWHERE close to the 1800#. IF you use one that you take the bucket off, I'd say you'll be real close. Tractors relief valves are all set a tad differently when leaving the factory. But again, it will be close, so you will just have to try it.

As to the ballast, get a 3PH bale spear. They arent too $$$. An 1800# bale on the back is more than enough to ballast for the bale on the FEL especially if you load the tires.

 

[HobbleCreek]

My bale spears replace the bucket. I'm guessing I will get it to 59", which will be high enough to stack the bales 2 high.

 

[arlen4720]

My bale spears replace the bucket. I'm guessing I will get it to 59", which will be high enough to stack the bales 2 high.

Are you talking round bales?
I have 220 lbs on each wheel, and I have about 500 lbs on the rear. Even though I can stack round bales 2 high with absolutely no problem, I KNOW I should have 1000 pounds in my ballast box. My round bales run 1500 lbs or so, and I have a 400 cx which gives me a little more lift. I really like the idea of using a bale in back for ballast:thumbsup: Something that I intend on doing at some point.

 

[DT86]

...since the bale spear will be over 300 lbs,...

What kind of bale spear are you using that weighs 300lbs?

 

[arlen4720]

What kind of bale spear are you using that weighs 300lbs?

They are the John Deere Worksite Pro skid steer ones. I have one for square bales, which is 375 pounds, and one for big rounds which is 200 pounds.

 

[DT86]

I wouldn't have thought they weighed that much.

What does a hay spear for square bales look like? I'm assuming you mean the large squares not the small ones most horse owners use?

 

[arlen4720]

I wouldn't have thought they weighed that much.

What does a hay spear for square bales look like? I'm assuming you mean the large squares not the small ones most horse owners use?

Yes, big squares. It is wider and has more tines than a round bale spear. The Worksite Pro stuff is heavier than the JD ag attachments. I know that isn't always a good thing with CUTs, but the 400cx handles it good. If I had a 300cx or less, I probably would not consider skid steer attach.
My bucket is 500 lbs, and my pallet forks are over 400 lbs.
I went that route because I will probably get a skid loader within a few years.

 

[HobbleCreek]

With the information provided in the other thread regarding ballast, I went to the manual for the 400x loader. It says that for proper ballast ALL of the following are required:

Interesting information Artillian. Thanks. According to that utility, when you have a loader installed you are to refer to the loader manual for proper ballast. Interestingly, the manual says that if you're operating a loader you should have ALL of the following:

1600 mm (63 in.) or greater rear tread setting.
Rear tires filled with liquid ballast.
Four rear wheel weights. (400X)
Six rear wheel weights. (400CX)
500 kg (1102 lb) minimum 3-point hitch ballast.

My backhoe, weighing in at about 1425 lbs., meets the 3-point hitch ballast requirement, but without the ballast in the tires and on the wheels, I'm going to have problems.

I don't have a 3 point bale spear, so I tried to figure something else out to unload the bales I purchased today. Turns out the bales are just over 1700 lbs. I tried lifting one just with my normal set up. No dice. Nose dropped to the ground.

I tried instead lifting one of the lighter bales I have (about 800 lbs.) with the backhoe. It worked, but it was pretty dicey. When I lifted the bale with the backhoe (via chains wrapped around the bale) it put the weight out so far in back that the front wheels were coming off the ground. Once I bit into the heavy bale, all four wheels were back on the ground. Still, that bale dangling off the back end left things pretty unwieldy. I got three bales off the trailer and into the barn, then decided I was better off to get the tractor properly balanced before going any further. I should have added the liquid to the tires and the wheel weights long ago. I'm going to get them in there and then see how it goes getting the rest of those big bales unloaded.

 

[HobbleCreek]

Just by way of update, I had Calcium Chloride put in my rear tires today. Wow! What a difference. I was able to lift the 1700 lb. bales and transport them to the barn, actually feeling safe (as opposed to feeling like I might tip over at any moment). If you're operating a front end loader and have not yet added liquid ballast to your tires, I highly recommend doing so immediately.

According to Deere, I should also go ahead and add the wheel weights. I expect that doing so would probably distribute the load more evenly and save wear and tear on the front end, and probably pays for itself in the long run.

 

[texasjohn]

Me, I'd spend the money on a 3ph implement for counter balance...box blade or hay spear...since it has function as well as weight and your objective is to keep rear on ground when using FEL.

 

[dirt ditch]

Here is some visual aids for loader spec weight measurements.

 

[LD1]

Just by way of update, I had Calcium Chloride put in my rear tires today. Wow! What a difference. I was able to lift the 1700 lb. bales and transport them to the barn, actually feeling safe (as opposed to feeling like I might tip over at any moment). If you're operating a front end loader and have not yet added liquid ballast to your tires, I highly recommend doing so immediately.

According to Deere, I should also go ahead and add the wheel weights. I expect that doing so would probably distribute the load more evenly and save wear and tear on the front end, and probably pays for itself in the long run.

Did you have JUST the loaded tires, or did you have something on the back also??

PS: adding wheel weights (and even the calcium you added) does NOT lessen the load on the front axle. The only way to do that is with weight BEHIND the axle.

 

[arlen4720]

Just by way of update, I had Calcium Chloride put in my rear tires today. Wow! What a difference. I was able to lift the 1700 lb. bales and transport them to the barn, actually feeling safe (as opposed to feeling like I might tip over at any moment). If you're operating a front end loader and have not yet added liquid ballast to your tires, I highly recommend doing so immediately.

According to Deere, I should also go ahead and add the wheel weights. I expect that doing so would probably distribute the load more evenly and save wear and tear on the front end, and probably pays for itself in the long run.

Good to hear that you filled the tires I don't think that you will need to add iron to the tires; the liquid will be enough. I do want to clarify one thing: You mentioned that adding more weight on the tires might save wear and tear on the front end. Rear wheel weight won't help in that regard. You will need to get some weight on the 3 point to take any weight off the front axle.
You absolutely need to do that. You should get 1000 lbs or so back there.

 

[HobbleCreek]

In addition to the ballast in the tires, I still have the 448 backhoe on. Not technically at 3-pt implement, but quite a bit of weight behind the axle. Is there anything better that I ought to have back there?

 

[LD1]

Nope. As long as it dont get in your way (manuverability), a BH makes a great counterweight. It is also adjustable too, of you find you need more weight to one side....swing it over a tad, or jsut mroe weight in general, extend it out a tad:thumbsup:

 

[Gary Fowler]

Nope. As long as it dont get in your way (manuverability), a BH makes a great counterweight. It is also adjustable too, of you find you need more weight to one side....swing it over a tad, or jsut mroe weight in general, extend it out a tad:thumbsup:

I love the adjustability of the backhoe counterweight. Once I ended up carrying a rather large pine tree to the brush pile using the back hoe as I couldnt get it into the FEL. At one point the trail sloped a bit and the tractor felt a little light on the uphill side so I just swung the tree to the uphill side and continued on past the slope with no problem. Nothing like an adjustable counter weight. For even more weight, fill the back hoe bucket with wet sand or clay.