Deere 2R vs 3R

   / Deere 2R vs 3R #11  
One thing I致e been reasoning out in my head is that, ignoring side wall strength, the actual load per square inch on my lawn should be independent of the weight of the tractor. In other words, if both machines are running 15 psi in their tires, theyæ±*e going to put 15 psi on the lawn. Itç—´ just that the larger machine is going to create a larger contact patch, due to itç—´ weight.

Heavy tires with strong side walls (eg. R4痴) will invalidate this theory, I致e heard folks claim they can support the weight of the machine pretty well with zero air in the tires, because their construction is so heavy. But if running 4-ply turf tires or Ag tires, both of which are of pretty flimsy construction, this theory may hold roughly true?

The concept is sound but you have to do what Lou said in order to get actual PSI. I have no specific basis for it, but it just seems to me that the tire size/contact patch isn't proportionally big enough on the larger tractor model to keep the PSI the same as the 2 series.

Rob
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R
  • Thread Starter
#12  
The concept is sound but you have to do what Lou said in order to get actual PSI. I have no specific basis for it, but it just seems to me that the tire size/contact patch isn't proportionally big enough on the larger tractor model to keep the PSI the same as the 2 series.

Got it. That makes sense, the same happens with car tires, due to the high strength of their side walls. A latex balloon fallows this law nearly perfectly, but a car tire will typically only see an increase in patch size of 2x for an increase in tire load of 10x, meaning the psi goes up 5x. I had thought turf tires were flimsy enough, by comparison to R4’s or car tires, that it might be closer to the balloon, but perhaps not enough.

That R3 is a good bit heavier... especially when set up properly for the FEL. Some here seem to run their 2R’s with 3-point ballast only, as I’ve always done with my 855, but most seem to agree the extra lift capacity of the bigger cylinders on the 320R loader really dictates having loaded tires or a lot of iron weight. If we take that as true, then:

With loader:
R3 = 2900 lb. + 850 loader + 1200 filled tires + 750 ballast box = 5700 lb.
R2 = 2450 lb. + 750 loader + 750 ballast box = 3950 lb.

With loader and ballast box removed:
R3 = 2900 lb. + 1200 filled tires = 4100 lb.
R2 = 2450 lb.

Of course, I’d probably be happy with that extra weight (and width) when running around my hilly property, or when skidding those occasional 5000 lb. logs off my trailer. With my 855, I always made due by cutting anything much over 3000 lb. in half, and even then I was always a little terrified a log might roll sideways down the ramp on the back of the trailer and drag me over with it. I did have that machine almost tip on me at least twice.
 
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   / Deere 2R vs 3R #13  
1200# for filled tires? I think filling the rears on my 2520 only added about 250#. And what does the tire style have to do with filling or not?

By the way, the ballast topic is a pretty deep on all on its own. There are plenty of threads here and on other tractor forums about it. Suffice it to say that filled rears don't really do as much for ballast as you might think. The weight needs to be behind the axle to offset the weight on the front axle. Yes, it helps keep the rear from coming off the ground but that's only part of what ballast is for.

Seems like your log problem can easily be solved by cutting them, as you describe. There can't be that much benefit in leaving them in huge sections, can there? Just how many loads of logs do you do in a year?

Rob
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R
  • Thread Starter
#14  
1200# for filled tires? I think filling the rears on my 2520 only added about 250#. And what does the tire style have to do with filling or not?

By the way, the ballast topic is a pretty deep on all on its own. There are plenty of threads here and on other tractor forums about it. Suffice it to say that filled rears don't really do as much for ballast as you might think. The weight needs to be behind the axle to offset the weight on the front axle. Yes, it helps keep the rear from coming off the ground but that's only part of what ballast is for.

Seems like your log problem can easily be solved by cutting them, as you describe. There can't be that much benefit in leaving them in huge sections, can there? Just how many loads of logs do you do in a year?

Rob
Hey Rob,

Yeah, I thought 1200# (= 600#/ea) sounded high, but it's the number someone gave me. I've indeed been reading some of those long threads on ballast, as well as talking with my dealer about it. They were the ones who were pretty insistent I'd want to fill tires on the 3R tractor, although I didn't think to ask them the weight per tire, at the time. I didn't say (or mean to imply) there was any link between tire style and filling, it was about the 2100 lb. loader max lift capacity on the 3R versus the 1300 lb. on the 2R tractor, nothing to do with tire type.

I average 10 - 11 loads at 5000 lb. per load, so roughly 50 - 55,000 lb. of wood per year. If a tornado or hurricane rolls thru, as one did this spring, I can easily double that number in a given year and then almost skip the following year. I keep 100,000 - 150,000 lb (green weight) of wood on-hand at all times, to have it seasoned 2 - 3 years before it gets used. Depending on where I'm harvesting, I can get multiple loads that are just one 5000 lb. log on each load, but that's rare. Most logs are 1000 - 1500 lb. I like to store them whole until I'm ready to buck and split, as it's just faster to move and store them that way, and then drag them whole to where I buck, split, and stack them. Other systems can work, but this is the one I've found most efficient for me, and I've laid out the wood storage lot, accordingly.
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R #15  
Hey Rob,

Yeah, I thought 1200# (= 600#/ea) sounded high, but it's the number someone gave me. I've indeed been reading some of those long threads on ballast, as well as talking with my dealer about it. They were the ones who were pretty insistent I'd want to fill tires on the 3R tractor. I didn't say (or mean to imply) there was any link between tire style and filling, it was about the 2100 lb. loader max lift capacity on the 3R versus the 1300 lb. on the 2R tractor, nothing to do with tire type.

I average 10 - 11 loads at 5000 lb. per load, so roughly 50 - 55,000 lb. of wood per year. If a tornado or hurricane rolls thru, as one did this spring, I can easily double that number in a given year and then almost skip the following year. I keep 100,000 - 150,000 lb (green weight) of wood on-hand at all times, to have it seasoned 2 - 3 years before it gets used. Depending on where I'm harvesting, I can get multiple loads that are just one 5000 lb. log on each load, but that's rare. Most logs are 1000 - 1500 lb. I like to store them whole until I'm ready to buck and split, as it's just faster to move and store them that way, and then drag them whole to where I buck, split, and stack them. Other systems can work, but this is the one I've found most efficient for me, and I've laid out the wood storage lot, accordingly.

I'm not saying you won't want to have filled tires. Just that filled tires are just a part of the ballast equation and ballast on the 3pt is a major component.

You go through a lot of wood. What size structure are you heating?

Rob
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R #16  
Sounds likes forks and or a rock bucket and grapple are in order. Make sure you get a 3rd function on your loader.
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R #17  
I’ve never owned a 3 series but I can comment on lawn damage. I own a 2025R with loaded rear tires and mow with it using a 60” mid mount. I’m coming from a Kubota BX, similar to a 1 series JD. The 2025 doesn’t tear up the yard any more, but it does tend to rut the yard more. Part of that is mowing in the same place over and over. You can vary the mowing pattern in some places but not every where. I’d say if you are worried about lawn damage smaller might be better. On the other hand if you don’t mow with it, can stay off the lawn when it’s soft, the 3 series would be nice. I know I’ve drooled over them.
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R
  • Thread Starter
#18  
You go through a lot of wood. What size structure are you heating?
Very large and very old. Roughly 8000 sq.ft. and roughly 250 years old. That amount of wood only makes up half of my total fuel consumption, by BTU value.

Sounds likes forks and or a rock bucket and grapple are in order. Make sure you get a 3rd function on your loader.
Yeah, this is another factor favoring the 3R, as the addition of a mid-PTO requires the addition of a third hydraulic function and the associated control on the SCV grip. There is a kit from Deere that easily routes that third function, which comes out behind the seat, back toward the front for use with a grapple.

Maybe the 2R has this option as well, I need to look into that. But that would also push the price of the 2R closer to what I was quoted on the 3R, as that third hydraulic channel is typically +$1k on the price of a new machine.

For now, I do well with tongs dangling from the bucket, or a choker chain to a hook welded atop my 855 bucket. This is why I will almost certainly go for the HD bucket on either machine, I would twist and destroy Deere’s current “standard” buckets in no time flat, they’re thin and weak!

I’ve never owned a 3 series but I can comment on lawn damage. I own a 2025R with loaded rear tires and mow with it using a 60” mid mount. I’m coming from a Kubota BX, similar to a 1 series JD. The 2025 doesn’t tear up the yard any more, but it does tend to rut the yard more. Part of that is mowing in the same place over and over. You can vary the mowing pattern in some places but not every where. I’d say if you are worried about lawn damage smaller might be better. On the other hand if you don’t mow with it, can stay off the lawn when it’s soft, the 3 series would be nice. I know I’ve drooled over them.
Excellent, thank you. This is exactly the type of feedback I’m hoping to get. I’m not mowing with it, but I’m traversing the yard to get from the barn to my wood lot, and from the wood lot to the house. See the aforementioned volume of wood I’m moving around. I’m also using it 6x per year to spread fertilizer across the entire lawn, 1x per year to over-seed the entire lawn, and 1x or 2x per year to aerate the lawn, and in the spring to move a lot of mulch to all of my various gardens. About 70% of my usage is on the lawn, 20% moving snow on asphalt, and 10% in the woods.

One question for you, since you own the 2R... what do you think about the location of the diff lock pedal and the MFWD lever? I can’t see how I won’t kick, mash, or break off that stupid MFWD lever, given the way it’s almost on top of the diff lock pedal. If I buy a 2R with turf tires, I’ll likely be using that diff lock quite a bit, it’s the only way I can haul my heavy wood trailer thru snow with the 855.

Two things that have me favoring the 3R for lawn use are:

1. Stability. I’m often sideways on reasonably steep grades. The 3R has more weight in the frame, and is wider in standard configuration (although I believe 2R can be spaced to almost the same width). Does Deere list their grade / rollover specs?

2. Weight. Yes, heavier can be better when I’m pushing my wagon loaded with oak under my porch, I do more lawn damage in wet slushy conditions, than any other single task. I use a 1-cord wagon load every third week, during the heating season, and my 855 has all sorts of traction problems getting this wagon pushed up a slight grade and into it’s storage location.
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R #19  
Interesting stuff. It would be interesting to see pics of your wood moving gear, walnut trees , your 855 and your grounds.
 
   / Deere 2R vs 3R
  • Thread Starter
#20  
Interesting stuff. It would be interesting to see pics of your wood moving gear, walnut trees , your 855 and your grounds.

I tried to post them, but this forum rejected the photos, at least thru Tapatalk. I will try again when I’m at a real computer.
 
 
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