D-Day

[ovrszd]

Our government has no qualms about sending our youth into battle before we consider them mature in society.

That is you.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Allied dead at D. Day...approx 4,000. The figure I heard for U.S. dead was 800. Southern dead at Gettysburg, 3,900; Union approx 4,000.

 

[ovrszd]

Allied dead at D. Day...approx 4,000. The figure I heard for U.S. dead was 800. Southern dead at Gettysburg, 3,900; Union approx 4,000.

In my military studies it has been very apparent that technology has diminished casualties.

An excellent "read" about the Civil War is "Company Atch". Based on diary writings of a Confederate soldier.

We save a lot of lives with our technology. But we also remove ourselves from personal responsibility. We blame the government.

WWII was the last time our society went to war with our Soldiers.

 

[Molalla1]

I was an Infantry Squad Leader in Vietnam before I could vote or buy beer.....

Our society has no qualms about sending our youth into battle before we consider them mature in society.

I hear you overszd . . .

 

[bunyip]

I worked with a conscientious objector as my boss, he was at the time one of the students who spat on returning Vietnam Vets, it was an uncomfortable six months and he was always pushing his own agenda but pulled rank when I pointed out what a pathetic ******* he really was, I would wear my ribbons to work on appropriate days, he was not happy but I enjoyed watching him squirm.

 

[Sigarms]

That is you.

No, that IS the government.

As you said yourself, WW11 was the last time our society went to war with our Soldiers. I also believe the last time a joint resolution was passed stateing we as a people we're at war was during WW11.

 

[ovrszd]

No, that IS the government.

As you said yourself, WW11 was the last time our society went to war with our Soldiers. I also believe the last time a joint resolution was passed stateing we as a people we're at war was during WW11.

You are the government.

Militarily this would become very clear if we reinstated the draft. If you knew that when your kids turned 18 they would spend 2 or 3 years in the military your opinion about this would be very different.

This society needs mandatory service. We haven't had that for 48 years. Your generation knows nothing about it.

 

[riptides]

You are the government.

Militarily this would become very clear if we reinstated the draft. If you knew that when your kids turned 18 they would spend 2 or 3 years in the military your opinion about this would be very different.

This society needs mandatory service. We haven't had that for 48 years. Your generation knows nothing about it.

Ouch...if your going to do mandatory military service, you should give an option of civilian services too.

 

[Sigarms]

You are the government.

Militarily this would become very clear if we reinstated the draft. If you knew that when your kids turned 18 they would spend 2 or 3 years in the military your opinion about this would be very different.

This society needs mandatory service. We haven't had that for 48 years. Your generation knows nothing about it.

No, I've never experienced a military draft, although I did enlist when I turned 18.

My father on the other hand served 3 or so tours in SE Asia and he enlisted in 1952, and ironically enough, he was pissed when I told him I went into a combat arms MOS. Couldn't figure out why back then, have a better understanding now.

That said, what you and I have noted does NOT take away from the fact the last time our government actually delcared war as a nation, being WW11.

Apologies for getting thread off topic...

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The US was heavily involved in WW2 well before they declared war. It took Pearl Harbor before they would declare war. At that point, it's like stating the obvious.

 

[k0ua]

That's All Brother...

D-Day 75th Anniversary | C-47 Plane

What a great post! I really liked the link for the little training film on how to use the Rebecca and Eureka beaconing equipment. AND how to blow it up! I knew of the existance of the Rebecca and Eureka equipment, but that was just in words. Nothing like actually seeing it packed, set up and deployed and destroyed! Very cool indeed. And like many aspects of WWII equipment it is far more sophisticated than we were led to believe from watching hollywood movies.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I was little during the war, but I can remember the mentality. The country (at least where I was) was 100% committed. It permeated everything we did...you went to to the store; sugar was rationed, shoes were rationed, gas was rationed...Mom saved tin cans and kitchen grease to recycle; my Dad and I would scour the countryside and recycle old tires and aluminum; gold stars in the windows, every one worked harder and sacrificed for our "guys fighting overseas". "Step on a crack, break ******'s back". Dart board with Tojo, ****** and Moussilini's pictures on it. Metal toys? No such things. Toys made of pressed and glued sawdust or other cheap wood (my toy army helmet was made from paper mache (sp?) and my machine gun was wooden.

Winning the war was constantly on everyone's mind.

 

[ArlyA]

Before WWII there was indeed a large contingent of a "no war" party which included Charlies Lindbergh and many, many other noted people. It was a BIG deal back then when everyone still recalled the mass deaths of WWI. Afterwards, everyone seems to have forgot about the party. Roosevelt was afraid he'd get thrown out of office if he did to much. Today with our hindsight, I'd say he showed little political spine at that time. Its easy for us to pass judgment of the events back then. Both of those wars were horrible, horrible events. That and industrial history, are hobbies of mine.

I was little during the war, but I can remember the mentality. The country (at least where I was) was 100% committed. It permeated everything we did...you went to to the store; sugar was rationed, shoes were rationed, gas was rationed...Mom saved tin cans and kitchen grease to recycle; my Dad and I would scour the countryside and recycle old tires and aluminum; gold stars in the windows, every one worked harder and sacrificed for our "guys fighting overseas". "Step on a crack, break ******'s back". Dart board with Tojo, ****** and Moussilini's pictures on it. Metal toys? No such things. Toys made of pressed and glued sawdust or other cheap wood (my toy army helmet was made from paper mache (sp?) and my machine gun was wooden.

Winning the war was constantly on everyone's mind.

 

[MossRoad]

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Lindbergh, despite his position against the U.S. entering the war, helped tremendously with the war effort. From here:
Charles Lindbergh - Wikipedia

After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Lindbergh sought to be recommissioned in the USAAF. The Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson, declined the request on instructions from the White House.[189]


VMF-222 "Flying Deuces"

VMF-216 "Bulldogs"
Unable to take on an active military role, Lindbergh approached a number of aviation companies and offered his services as a consultant. As a technical adviser with Ford in 1942, he was heavily involved in troubleshooting early problems encountered at the Willow Run Consolidated B-24 Liberator bomber production line. As B-24 production smoothed out, he joined United Aircraft in 1943 as an engineering consultant, devoting most of his time to its Chance-Vought Division.[190]

The following year, Lindbergh persuaded United Aircraft to designate him as a technical representative in the Pacific Theater to study aircraft performances under combat conditions. Among other things, he showed Marine pilots how to take off safely with a bomb load double the Vought F4U Corsair fighter-bomber's rated capacity. At the time, several Marine squadrons were flying bomber escorts to destroy the Japanese stronghold of Rabaul, New Britain, in the Australian Territory of New Guinea. On May 21, 1944, Lindbergh flew his first combat mission: a strafing run with VMF-222 near the Japanese garrison of Rabaul.[191] He also flew with VMF-216, from the Marine Air Base at Torokina, Bougainville. Lindbergh was escorted on one of these missions by Lt. Robert E. (Lefty) McDonough, who refused to fly with Lindbergh again, as he did not want to be known as "the guy who killed Lindbergh".[191]


433rd Fighter Squadron "Satan's Angels"
In his six months in the Pacific in 1944, Lindbergh took part in fighter bomber raids on Japanese positions, flying 50 combat missions (again as a civilian).[192] His innovations in the use of Lockheed P-38 Lightning fighters impressed a supportive Gen. Douglas MacArthur.[193] Lindbergh introduced engine-leaning techniques to P-38 pilots, greatly improving fuel consumption at cruise speeds, enabling the long-range fighter aircraft to fly longer range missions. P-38 pilot Warren Lewis quoted Lindbergh's fuel saving settings, 滴e said, ?..we can cut the RPM down to 1400RPMs and use 30 inches of mercury (manifold pressure), and save 50 - 100 gallons of fuel on a mission.樗[194] The U.S. Marine and Army Air Force pilots who served with Lindbergh praised his courage and defended his patriotism.[191][195]

On July 28, 1944, during a P-38 bomber escort mission with the 433rd Fighter Squadron in the Ceram area, Lindbergh shot down a Mitsubishi Ki-51 "Sonia" observation plane, piloted by Captain Saburo Shimada, commanding officer of the 73rd Independent Chutai.[191][196]

Lindbergh's participation in combat was revealed in a copyrighted story in the Passaic Herald-News on October 22, 1944.[197]

In mid-October 1944, Lindbergh participated in a joint Army-Navy conference on fighter planes at NAS Patuxent River, Maryland.[198]

After the war, Lindbergh toured the **** concentration camps and wrote in his autobiography that he was disgusted and angered.[N 6]

 

[k0ua]

I never knew that about Lindbergh. Thanks for posting... Your just full of good info today!

 

[ArlyA]

Charlies Lindbergh was indeed a strange and complex character. After his death, it was discovery he had children with 2 different German women after the war who both, considered him there husband. I read a book about his life and didn't think much of him afterwards. In case you don't know, he was also married to a wealthy gal in the states and had a family with her but was in Europe for many months at a time. To much free time? Seems he was in the antiwar party only because if his affiliation to Germany.

 

[k0ua]

Charlies Lindbergh was indeed a strange and complex character. After his death, it was discovery he had children with 2 different German women after the war who both, considered him there husband. I read a book about his life and didn't think much of him afterwards. In case you don't know, he was also married to a wealthy gal in the states and had a family with her but was in Europe for many months at a time. To much free time? Seems he was in the antiwar party only because if his affiliation to Germany.

Well hey... some of those blonde fraulines are pretty decent looking..

 

[Sigarms]

Charlies Lindbergh was indeed a strange and complex character. After his death, it was discovery he had children with 2 different German women after the war who both, considered him there husband. I read a book about his life and didn't think much of him afterwards. In case you don't know, he was also married to a wealthy gal in the states and had a family with her but was in Europe for many months at a time. To much free time? Seems he was in the antiwar party only because if his affiliation to Germany.

The irony was he had more children outside of his marriage than in, and he had six legitmate children.

Off topic on the off topic at hand, but the conviction of Richard Hauptmann was a prime example of our justice system run amuck IMO.

 

[ovrszd]

Ouch...if your going to do mandatory military service, you should give an option of civilian services too.

Just off the top of my head I can't think of a single "civilian service" job that the military doesn't have?? Can you??

I believe in today's military there are 52 Soldiers in the rear supporting 1 Soldier in the fight. There's plenty for the pacifist types to do.

 

[ovrszd]

No, I've never experienced a military draft, although I did enlist when I turned 18.

My father on the other hand served 3 or so tours in SE Asia and he enlisted in 1952, and ironically enough, he was pissed when I told him I went into a combat arms MOS. Couldn't figure out why back then, have a better understanding now.

That said, what you and I have noted does NOT take away from the fact the last time our government actually delcared war as a nation, being WW11.

Apologies for getting thread off topic...

I think this element applies to the discussion of the WWII generation Soldiers. Society supported that war effort absolutely. In small communities young men were looked down on if they didn't go. There were a handful of families in my county that "saved" their Sons from service thru whatever means they could conjure up. My Dad knew each of those families by name.

911 perked our society's support for the military. But no where near enough to support a Declaration of War. The "Group Hug" segment would have a hissy fit.

Only mandatory service will ever change this mentality.