Cyclone 200ES attached to generator?

   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #21  
So I should be looking at larger than the 7000 watts area?


Scenario 1: 7000 Watt genny can handle (I1Eff) 3600 Watts all day. Any voltage/rpm dips while genny reacts to 6800Watt surge has no impact on welder performance.

Scenario 2: 7000 Watt genny can handle welders I1Eff 15A (3600 Watts) effective load all day but the initial 6800W surge, and voltage/rpm dip may take the genny an unacceptable amount of time to recover.

Is the surge 3 seconds or .05 seconds?
IMHO, we just don’t know enough about the time duration of the surge, the recovery characteristics of the genny/motor, or how the welder performs during this “recovery”, to know how the two will dance together.

So going bigger is like buying insurance. Will you really need it? Yes. No. Maybe. Sometimes. Just once. How’s wallet vs risk tolerance?

That being said, in all likelihood, IMHO, a 7000W (continuously rated) genny can handle a 15A (3600W) welder that has a 6800W inrush.


…that is, comparing the “continuous” 7000W rating of the generator to the “instantaneous” 6800W inrush of the welder is apples to oranges.

Another scenario:
Let’s say you ONLY knew the welder’s I1Eff current rating was 15Amps (3600Watts) and was asking how to size genny. We might say, “4000Watt genny might run it, but bump it to 5500Watts to cover the inrush surges.”
…but now that we have a “inrush number” (but no duration time) we’re talking about bumping 7000Watts to something even higher? It won’t hurt, good insurance, but… to upsize again is what I’d call “double dipping” on the safety factor. It’s not comparing peak to peak, or looking at the time durations at those peaks. Having a 10kw generator for a 15A circuit seems ridiculous.

Another scenario:
Imagine a (say) 5000 Watt generator for the 15A (3600W) welder. It might have a 500 pound flywheel, or maybe it has a 10 pound fly wheel (not real numbers). Then there’s the 6800W pulse demand. We don’t know how long the pulse is. We don’t know anything about the torque curve or response time characteristics of the motor. We don’t know how much voltage dip for how long the welder can tolerate until it becomes unacceptable. In this scenario, it’s easy to see there’s no way to tell if this “generic” 5000Watt genny wins or loses the battle. That’s why people upsize.
 
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   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #22  
Again, it will all depend on the electronics tolerance to frequency changes. Marginal electronics cannot tolerate frequency disruptions and will fail and like I stated previously, conventional 2 pole generators don't produce TSW anyway. They are ALL modified sine wave from the get go.

All comes down to pay me now or deal with a failure. I know where I stand which is why an Inverter generator for me is the only choice.
 
   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #23  
Go look at a similar sized Big Blue or some other portable welder. Miller and Lincoln do this every day. If it were an issue with electronics they wouldn't do it. I've had a 25 kW PTO gen for years that has never caused any electronics issues. You talk about clean power, have you ever put a scope or power meter on your house power? You might be surprised how sucky it really is. I do this every day and I can tell you that very few power plants produce clean power like you speak of. I'm with Coby, buy you a 7 kW gen and run the welder. Shoot man, I have seen so many red and blue portable welders for sale very cheap lately maybe you should just buy one of those. You can buy one for less than you pay for your generator.
 
   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #24  
My portable ac-dc welder with HF is a Lincoln but then I prefer Lincoln's anyway. Incoming line voltage can and does vary depending on load but the frequency (hertz) is always at 60cps. If it wasn't your electric powered clocks would either gain or loose time depending on the Hz fluctuations. It's the cps that will fry sensitive electronics, not the voltage and that especially applies to non shielded electronics made across the pond.
 
   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #25  
When I said portable welder I meant self contained gen powered welder. Of course line voltage from the grid is 60 Hz. It's also a very constant voltage but can vary slightly and does depending on the MW and MVAR loads. But that has nothing to do with this issue.
 
   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
I'm going to try get a 240 welder plug installed for this CLN-200ES welder. Nonetheless, I have seen 8000 and 9000 watt used generator up FS. Now with correct zeros added.
 
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   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #27  
If you are going to use cyclone on 230 volt receptacle (NEMA L14-30R) of generator, just get a NEMA 6-50R to L14-30P adapter. The NEMA L14-30R is the typical 30 amp 240 volt receptacle on generator ... A whole lot easier than screwing with rewiring plug....




Screenshot 2023-03-09 142058.jpg
 
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   / Cyclone 200ES attached to generator? #28  
I'm going to try get a 240 welder plug installed for this CLN-200ES welder. Nonetheless, I have seen 800 and 900 watt used generator up FS.
Good luck with 800 to 900 watts.... We are talking 8000 to 9000 watt generator for your needs....
 
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