Cutting/trenching ice

[Egon]

Now someone is talking about the easy way!

 

[sawdust_maker]

Lay the whole network out on the top of the ice, weighted if necessary, and wait until spring.

Mother nature will do the job for you when the ice melts.

Um, if you get any wind in the spring, that pipe will be a twisted, broken mess.

I've watched an entire lakes worth of ice moving at a fast walking pace due to the wind. Of course, it was a bit breezy at the time, with up to 84 mph gusts. But most years we expect to see the ice moving at some time or another.

Besides that, make very sure that no snowmobilers will choose to cross the lake through the winter.

John

 

[Scotty370]

I've read the thread three times! I'd also like to know the total overall project scope! If precision placement is the goal, I'd paint it up on the ice every 50-100'. You could use a transit! Then use a power ice-fishing auger to drill holes at desired intervals. A concrete block, cord, and bleach bottle would mark your control points. Heavier weights with cables could be used at corners, etc. In the spring, you could fuse, glue, connect your lines and tow them out to the control points. once the network is floating in place, flood it to sink. Dependent on the water depth, and surface bottom, I can't see that you'd get it laid out more accurately. On a river crossing I worked on, the line from the concrete block is passed thru the bleach bottle handle then connected to the anchor line with a heavier clevise. The clevise slides down the anchor line (working against the bottles bouyancy and takes the slack out, so the floats line up perfectly! If you go with this, you may want to add a little RV antifreeze to the bottles, so they are just bouyant to 2-3" above the surface. That might keep them from being pulled around during the ice break-up! ~Scotty

 

[bobodu]

I'm dying to find out what this is about...
Any geothermal pipe I've seen dropped in a lake was in coils. Unless maybe he's going to "Import" some Canadian whiskey. Old Joe Kennedy never thought of a pipeline ,I bet.

 

[Scotty370]

bobodu- 'Ole Joe' didn't need a pipe.......with a tanker like Ted! Ouch!...sorry.....ouch!, I'll be good......promise!....RIP Ted! ~S

 

[Gary Fowler]

The most practical idea so far has been the one on getting some divers to place precise anchors to the bottom during the summer then run pull rope thru all the anchors and up to shore. IF the line has to be installed in the winter for some reason, cut out an entry hole and exit hole on shore where the ropes come out and then fabricate the pipe and pull it thru all the anchors and out the other side. No ice cutting needed other than a chain saw to cut your entry/ exit points. You will need some sort of anchor system anyway so why not put them in now. Really dont understand why you want to wait till winter to do this either.

 

[forgeblast]

What about those gas powered concrete saws? I also like the idea of putting precise anchors to the bottom during the summer then run pull rope thru all the anchors and up to shore. Also what about putting the coils where you want them and then running hot water through them. would it melt the ice and sink where you wan them?

 

[schmism]

before we burnt down the old house i had to find and cap off the old water line to it.

the way we decided to do this in feb was to take a ditchwitch cut a trench 3' deep and about 6' long in the area were we thought the water line was.

when we cut it we would know were it its. The guy with the (large ride on trencher with backhoe) tried to dig up the spot ontop of the water line we found the ground fozen solid.

so he fliped the trencher around and cut 2 more slices about a foot apart parallel to the water line. then used the backhoe to pull out one huge chunk of frozen clay. the trencher cut slow but it still dug fine in the frozen ground. I suppose a rock chain version would work better especially if you had 2-3' of frost but his was reg dirt chain.

 

[BHD]

they make mechincal tree harvesters that have King size chain saws, if one made a dual bar unit some what like two small trenchers side by side, I would think that would work behind a hydrstatic tractor,

Bailey's - Mechanical Harvesting

 

[bx24]

Any chance you can drain the pond and simply lay it out?

 

[radioman]

Any chance you can drain the pond and simply lay it out?

pond ? OP says he laying down 22000' of pipe!! Is this straight across or in circular pattern ? Looks like we don't have enough info here. How big is this lake? Is this his lake? what the pvc pipe for ? How deep is the lake ?
What equipment is he planning to use ? what if the lake doesnt freeze over this winter ? Isnt it more feasable to do this with a barge with couple scuba divers in summer time ?

 

[bobodu]

I glanced at the guys recent posting stats...we may never know what he wants to do...

 

[Berniep]

I glanced at the guys recent posting stats...we may never know what he wants to do...

Ha Ha! I did the same thing and reached the same conclusion.

 

[DANOCHEESE]

Me thinks the Wisconsin DNR will have something to say about this. We need three permitts jsut to go under a creek then we get to pay for a girl to watch the crew work all day. Directional borign would be the way to go. Fish finder for depth and bore away. pull HDPE back and fuse the joints. MAy get long in the rod department.

 

[Scotty370]

I glanced at the guys recent posting stats...we may never know what he wants to do...

I thought the same thig BoBo. I hate it when you get a 'teaser-thread' from a new member, then they're gone forever! He's a Platinum Member! Maybe he's just tied up with other things........~Scotty

 

[bobodu]

Maybe he found out the ice ain't as thick as he thought.....

 

[MikeD74T]

He might just be busy. Did you check his website? http://www.kennedydiesel.com/ MikeD74T

 

[Johndeere3720]

I watched a cool show last night and they showed ice breakers, which are basically excavators that float and break ice for ships to get through. They hit some really hard ice and had to use a what looked like a PTO trencher behind a large kubota to cut through the ice. It wasnt fast enough for them though so the brought in a Bobcat T320 with an asphalt cutter and it cut the ice like butter. What a cool show. This may work for you.

 

[KennedyDiesel]

Sorry, been busy with cut up of the old system and trying to keep the poly out of the landfill. I'll try to get back more often now that the old poly is cut up and I'm not running in the evenings.

I knew I could count on you guys here for some healthy discussion. BEPCO Home Page has some info. Also search on eau pleine fish kill and you'll see what the buzz is about.

Open water buoyed deployment was my suggestion, but not sure if that will happen yet. It's getting late in the season.

Essentially, the project has been mapped out with GPS coordinates and using slots in the ice we can precisely lay the lines w/o wind issues. The issue is to cut the slot in a productive manner.


Back in 1981 they used a small dozer and a "root cutter" of some sort. Stump grinder I guess, but the width of these heads is narrow.

Ditch Witch would do it but SLOW and needs greasing every .5-1hr of cutting.

Paralell chain saws etc also being considered.

Old school saws would work, but again the paralell thing.

Me thinks the Wisconsin DNR will have something to say about this. We need three permitts jsut to go under a creek then we get to pay for a girl to watch the crew work all day. Directional borign would be the way to go. Fish finder for depth and bore away. pull HDPE back and fuse the joints. MAy get long in the rod department.

No issues with DNR permits here. They were part of the original system install and in on the new install.

If you have a hydrostatic tractor, of 20 hp or so, then a trencher like the one I built might work. It has several problems, but most of which are tied to a gear tractor pulling it faster than the teeth could stand, and them loading up and breaking shear pins. The teeth were 3" wide flatbar.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/71073-trencher-poorboys-stump-grinder.html

David from jax

That is almost exactly what I was thinking. serrate the teeth though for more chipping and less cutting.

I have 44 HP hydro (35PTO) and juiced it with 15% larger injectors for some more grunt.