Cutting/trenching ice

KennedyDiesel · Oct 2, 2009

We have a project coming that involves laying out several miles of PVC tubing in a lake. The plan is to launch in winter so that placement is precise. The issue is how to cut through 10-12" of ice quickly and efficiently?

We'll want about a 3" minimum width so a stump grinder is likely out. My thought was to simply build a wheel and teeth and use a brush hog gear box to spin it from my 540 rear. I have seen ratios of 1:1.47 in the Northern too listings so I assume 540 becomes 800 with this setup?

Length of runs may approach 2,000' and total will approach 22,000'

Do I counter rotate to keep the blade in, or forward rotate to help motivate the tractor? I would need to rig down pressure to keep the wheel in the ice if I went to forward rotation.

Egon · Oct 2, 2009

Have you considered something like a Ditch Witch?

20 20 · Oct 2, 2009

Egon said:
Have you considered something like a Ditch Witch?

That's what I was thinking

hr3 · Oct 2, 2009

Ken.. I would think a round blade would bind alot,,, thats a very long run..if you were to run off course just a little and have to adjust,,Well kinda like a circular saw pinchs in a piece of 2by4 if you try to streighten out a cut,,,

How about a hyd. chain saw ??? this way you could mount it offset on some sort of setup off your 3pt... ???

dawzie · Oct 2, 2009

I would jerry rig some kind of 3pt attachment with two chain saws on the end of it. Zip tie the throttle on, lower the 3 pt till the 20" bars cut through the ice then take off in what ever slow gear you have to.

You could do this with a very light weight fwd tractor.

I have a 4' asphalt cutter wheel for my bobcat, but it weighs 12000 lbs total.

Taylortractornut · Oct 2, 2009

i have an old 1to1 gear box off a cotton stripper. It runs a wheel with tiller teeth and cuts an 8 inch trench andabout 4 inches wide. It also piles the soil to one side.
Ill get a few pics of it when my wife gets home.

Egon · Oct 2, 2009

If you use a chain saw remember to modify the chain.

speedy67 · Oct 2, 2009

Something like this: Caterpillar: Products>Work Tool Attachments>Saws

A tracked skid with carbide ice studs screwed into the tracks for the added traction would be the ticket.

BXpanded · Oct 2, 2009

Ditch Witch makes an "Earth Saw" for their trenchers. Basically a carbide toothed wheel capable of cutting through soft stone or frozen ground. Since you're obviously in an area that experiences some pretty serious frost conditions, you can probably rent a machine equipped with the saw installed.

DraftHorse · Oct 2, 2009

Radical different approach - dual mounted, adjustable width, high pressure water jet cutters. If they can cut through steel, ice should be a breeze.

atgreene · Oct 2, 2009

Have you seen the old ice harvesting saws? A modification would seem to work for what your doing. We have one at the farm museum, iirc. I'll try to grab a pic.

sandman2234 · Oct 2, 2009

If you have a hydrostatic tractor, of 20 hp or so, then a trencher like the one I built might work. It has several problems, but most of which are tied to a gear tractor pulling it faster than the teeth could stand, and them loading up and breaking shear pins. The teeth were 3" wide flatbar.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/71073-trencher-poorboys-stump-grinder.html

David from jax

tommu56 · Oct 2, 2009

I'm just curious is it for a heat pump?

The article on one I saw the pipe was looped in a flat pattern that looked like the Olympic symbol 1000 times over. with black wire ties tying the mat together the matt was about 200- 300 ft square

There were some bricks tywrapped to it too.
they kept it filled with air and floated it out were they wanted it and then pumped in water or antifreze (I don't remember what it was) to sink it.

tom

20 20 · Oct 2, 2009

Don't over think it, Ice is not that hard to cut through. It is not wood and doesn't need a coolant, allready there. Guys up here use chains saws all the time for cutting holes for ice fishing. We can get ice well over 2 foot. You could use two chain saws cutting a width but you'd need to chunk that in order to move it{either pull it out or push it up under} out of the way. I perfer to push ice under if possible for a couple of reasons. 1 Makes the ice stronger and if someone is snowmobiling they won't hit a jump/bump on a nice flat service.

Mace Canute · Oct 2, 2009

What were you planning to use for anchoring the pipe down? 22,000 feet is a lot of trenching to do, even if it cuts as easy as ice. How deep is the lake, btw? It's just a thought, but could you use GPS to position yourself accurately on the lake? Maybe float the pipe out, use GPS to accurately locate anchor points and lower them to the bottom? Maybe possible also to anchor one end securely and use a boat to pull it taut and slowly release tension allowing it to settle to the bottom. If you prefer to do it in winter, and want a cutter to open an ice trench, maybe you could make one from a couple of those old circular wood saws. Two of those of a good sized diameter on a common spindle with a spacer between them and you could cut any sized width of trench you wanted.

Treemonkey1000 · Oct 2, 2009

Rent a stump grinder with good teeth on it.

powerstroke444e · Oct 2, 2009

We have a frost chain for our big trencher but I would be a little gun shy of putting a 15K machine on a lake with 12" of ice and cutting it?? I have cut 15" of frost with it but it was a little rough.

MikeD74T · Oct 2, 2009

Heres how ice was cut a few years ago:
http://www.cutsoldtrucks.com/iceday2.htm

http://ohtm.org/blg/collections/engines/1926-ford-t-ice-saw/?calmonth=6&calyear=2009&calmonth=7&calyear=2009

http://lincolncountynews.smugmug.com/gallery/7401156_Vq5ZE/1/476827031_z2w8G/Medium

Heres an out fit that could make you a pair of hi-tech circular saw blades for ice.: Precision cutting, precise angles with water jet cutter
MikeD74T

tommu56 · Oct 3, 2009

Nightmare / brainstorme
After you cut ice what is going to hold up the equipment?

What about putting the pipe on the ice with weight tied to the pipe to make it negative buoyancy (pipe with water in it would be neutral buoyancy) and run hot water through it till it melts through and drops down on bottom.

A second thought on rigid pvc pipe it will break if frozen I would think polyethylene pipe (think well pipe) be a better material choice it will swell and not brake.
tom

PILOON · Oct 3, 2009

Lay the whole network out on the top of the ice, weighted if necessary, and wait until spring.

Mother nature will do the job for you when the ice melts.

OR

Make 2 holes, hire a scuba diver and pull the pipe under the ice.

OR

B4 winter, lay a cord/rope attached to markers at the ends, during winter retrieve the ends, attach the pipe and pull the pipe under the ice.