Cummins 6.7

[srsu99]

Oops typo I ment to say I got about 10mpg for the first 10000 miles on my o4 dodge. Dealer said this was normal during break in period. Also my insurance provider gives a 500 dollar rebate for dodge products. (Farm Bureau) But they charge 100 dollars more a year to insure it, kinda funny. My 06 was made in canada. BTW the 6 speed manual is made by mercedes heavy truck division. I like it better than the 04 reverse is easier to get. I really liked my 6 speed in the ford though because it was the same pattern as my haul truck which has a 13 speed road ranger tranny.

 

[radman1]

To read up on the new Fords, Chevys and Dodges check out some of the forum sites
Ford - The Diesel Stop, Ford Truck Enthusiats
Chevy - The Diesel Place
Dodge - Turbo Diesel Register

The new 6.4 ford has overall done very well IMHO. Much better than the early 6.0. I give it number one in looks and creature comforts but that is subjective.
The new 6.7 dodge has also done well with the exception of the plugging DPF (diesel particulate filter). New transmission seems to be doing well.
The Chevy engine is a slight improvement on prior designs and now has been shown to be a proven engine. Allison transmission is refined and no issues. What were they thinking with the design of that front bumper?

MPG is dropping for all 3 due to increasing hp and emission requirement with the regeneration cycles for the DPFs. With 3.73 or similar gearing, most reports are in the 13-15 mpg range. The ford 450 with 4.88 gearing mpg is dismal in the 8-9mpg range but can pull a fiver up to 24,500 lbs which is huge. Ford has just released a 3.55 gearing available on the 2nd job trucks. Probably in an attempt to improve mileage. Recent diesel magazine reviewed all three companies HD trucks and were similarly matched and pulling 10K loads. The Chevy came out first overall in most categories but the difference is really close between all 3 in performance. The amazing thing is the chevy and ford V10 gassers performed near the level of the diesels in pulling loads, acceleration etc.

 

[john_bud]

Reading the diesel stop, it seems the new fords are having issues with the radiators leaking, shuddering on drivaway with heavy load and the DPF cracking leading to smokers. This is in addition to the well known "flame thrower" condition that lead to the trucks being reprogrammed. Flawless? not quite, but pretty good (aside from mpg dissapointment).

jcmseven, can you point to where your data about how the 6.4 is one of the best new engines? It would be good to put that out for those of us that want see the data.

thx, jb

 

[Rara Avis]

To read up on the new Fords, Chevys and Dodges check out some of the forum sites
Ford - The Diesel Stop, Ford Truck Enthusiats
Chevy - The Diesel Place
Dodge - Turbo Diesel Register

Excellent Point...
This is where the real information is available....

 

[jcmseven]

Paul, you are right on this IMO but one must be careful here. Problem areas tend to be overstated on these forums. Just as with our tractor forums. On the JD forum, one person posted that he did not know JD was so bad, as all the posters were having problems seemingly. If one is careful to maintain level-headedness then a good source of info. For the poster who asked from where I received my information about the initial problem free nature of the 6.4L, it was from one of the district reps. I had a problem with one of my seats (had a discoloration) and he is authorizing a replacement for it. During this time I asked him about this question. He said FoMoCo was very happy so far with the numbers of initial warranty repairs on the new 6.4L. He said it was the "best he had seen" and better than the 7.3L--the previous Ford benchmark--although the reporting was different then, also. This was echoed by the SM at our dealer, who services more 250-550 trucks than any dealer in our area and I THINK--several state area. He says few problems areas have arisen and they have been really simple fixes. As for resale, please note that I said in MY area. In Fredricksburg, TX, things might be different and even here they could be different from case to case. Also, my advice is for anyone looking at a HD (or any truck), go and look thoroughly at the truck. Memorize the spec sheets and take stopwatch, tape measure and flashlight when looking. Take a towel or wheel dolly and roll underneath. The heart of any HD truck is the frame. Are the crossmembers rivited or welded, or both??? Are the welds one-sided or both. Is the frame uncoated or e-coated??? Is the suspension heavy??? The springs, etc. Does the truck really perform as advertised?? Is it slower, or quicker?? How does it ride??? Does it rattle??? Does it have or not have the features one wants?? All these things, regardless of brand is where the story lies. Regardless of brand (I like Robbie--and want him to be happy with his purchase whether it be Dodge, Ford, or GM) these are things that too many purchasers do not do. I have, unfortunately, heard too often, "I bought it because it looked good." While important, not the primary criteria that should pervade. There is no perfect truck, but one usually can achieve motoring happiness by doing those steps. I had some advantage here because my dealer bought examples of each brand--the top trim level, too!!--for folks to drive and scour, so I had a chance to look at each on the lift, without wheels, tires, check suspension, and drive each extensively back to back without having to go to multiple dealers. This was a nice service. When I asked other dealers about it, many just stared and said, "I don't think we will do that."

John M

 

[RobertN]

For a long time, Dodge had 3.55 gears standard. Maybe that helped mileage over 3.73 or 4.11? I have 4.11 in my '01 RAM; wish I had 3.73... My mileage definitely takes a hit.

IMHO, power is a considerable part of mileage issues. If these Big-3, soon to add Toyota if rumors come true, were not in HP/torque wars, these diesel trucks could probably pull better mileage. I think it would be nice to have a "power button". Off=high HP and lower mileage. On=economy with lower hp. Don't they do this with some aftermarket chips/add-on controllers?

MPG is dropping for all 3 due to increasing hp and emission requirement with the regeneration cycles for the DPFs. With 3.73 or similar gearing, most reports are in the 13-15 mpg range. The ford 450 with 4.88 gearing mpg is dismal in the 8-9mpg range but can pull a fiver up to 24,500 lbs which is huge. Ford has just released a 3.55 gearing available on the 2nd job trucks. Probably in an attempt to improve mileage.

 

[jcmseven]

Robert,

I think this is a great idea. For me though, my new truck gets really the same if not slightly better mileage than my old 7.3L did. That truck was heavily modified and top end would run a little faster than my new one. But, at all points in between this new truck runs smoother and better. This is comparing how my 7.3L did stock, before all the add ons. My friend's new GMC with the Duramax/Allison combination gets within one mpg of what his previous one (pre-emissions) did. And it runs better.

John M

 

[jcmseven]

Also, one way the manufacturers to me are dealing with maintaining some semblance of mileage while jacking up power is by adding gears. The Allison and Dodge trannies are now six speeds, and the Ford is five. When in doubt keep overdriving it!!! Actually, all things considered, given the power increases seen over the past few years, the mileage really is not that bad. The problem is they have not achieved enough separation between the diesels and gas engines, so it makes it hard to justify the diesel based on fuel economy alone.

John M

 

[radman1]

jcmseven
Your right. IMHO, it is getting hard to justify the diesels over gas. The big gassers from chevy and ford are very good engines and produce almost the same hp. Unless you pull a lot, pull very heavy loads or plan for 250,000+ mile usage, the gasser is probably the logical choice. 6K more for diesel engine than gasser and MPG/performance is not dramatically better. Cost of repair for diesel is significantly higher. At times, diesel fuel costs more than gas.
I should have said earlier, like you mentioned, these forums tend to bring out the complaints more than good performance. One guy's problem tends to get repeated in multiple posts. I agree with you, Ford seems to have the most heavy duty frame. The ford typically weighs 1000 lbs more than similar chevy or dodge.
The cracked dpf issue mentioned on some fords, seems to improve the MPG probably due to less regenerations. Some guys don't want to fix it.
The decline of the small diesel maybe in 2010, if manufactures begin to use urea to reduce emissions. Who wants the additional cost, weight, and cold weather issues of filling up with 20-30 gallons of urea to run in your truck?

 

[radman1]

johnbud
The shuddering on the fords with heavy loads maybe due to the alignment of the drive line. By reports, it occurs only when taking off from a stop and pulling heavy loads. Doesn't seem to be in all trucks. More of an annoyance than any true mechanical problem.
The overflowing radiator issue seems to occur occasionally but not a very common issue. I wonder if these are random cases rather than a widespread issue.
The cracked DPF is probably a true issue for some trucks. Results in smoke from tailpipe which should not be present on the newer trucks. However, trucks with cracked dpf's seem to get better mileage due to fewer regenerations.
The flame thrower issue was an initial problem with cracked injectors on early trucks. The injectors are now better and the computer reprogrammed to not allow regeneration if temp is too high. The cracked injectors were spewing fuel into the tailpipe during a regeneration, there was so much fuel in the tailpipe, flames came out the tailpipe. Computer was reprogrammed not to allow regeneration if temperatures are excessively high.

 

[srsu99]

My o6 1 ton dodge with cummins and 6 speed manual shudders when I pull a gooseneck load of roundbales up my driveway. It is paved. The truck is a 4 door long bed. Pretty long driveline. This is the only time it does this and my 04 dodge was identical to this one and it did the same thing. With 14 bales aqnd the dual tandem trailer I probally weigh around 20 -21k but never had this particular combonation over the scale. Other than that no problems. Friend of mine has a ford with new 6.4 deisel and it got about 6 mpg at first. Took it to the dealer and they did something with computer, claims it gets a lot better mileage now. One reason why fords weigh so much more is all the dumb novelty items like a step in the tail gate. COME ON!

 

[john_bud]

Radman, Thx for the info.

I do also know only owners with problems report and that a few posts can make it look like the sky is falling.

But, I don't think that a person at the dealership is a verifiable data source in determining statisticaly reliable failure rates. There seems to be (qualitatively) more negative issues with the new 6.4 ford than with the latest incarnation of the 6.6 GM diesel. The fuel ecomomy seems to be 3-4 mpg less with the 6.4 VS the 6.6. That one is shaded with variable gearing. The Ford can be had with much steeper gears and we all know spinning the engine higher uses fuel faster.

The 6.7 Cummins seems to be having few issues. DPF being one, but that will plague them all for the next few years. I do like that it still can be had with a manual transmission. I would love to see 2 identical trucks, 1 manual and 1 auto, go cross country side by side and see the milage difference. I wouldn't be real shocked if there was little to no difference.


jb

 

[RobertN]

I do not worry about HP anymore; I want to see torque numbers. Torque does the work, HP is a calculated number. Gas engines don't put out the torque numbers...

You are right on about fuel cost though. Diesel is 40 cents or more a gallon than regular in the Sacramento area. My truck gets better mileage than the previous gas trucks I had, but at 40 cents a gallon premium, gas does not look too bad now...

When I got my RAM in 2001, diesel was 10 cents less than regular locally, and I got better mileage than the two previous gassers.

jcmseven
Your right. IMHO, it is getting hard to justify the diesels over gas. The big gassers from chevy and ford are very good engines and produce almost the same hp. Unless you pull a lot, pull very heavy loads or plan for 250,000+ mile usage, the gasser is probably the logical choice. 6K more for diesel engine than gasser and MPG/performance is not dramatically better. Cost of repair for diesel is significantly higher. At times, diesel fuel costs more than gas.

 

[radman1]

srsu99
The tailgate step is a brilliant idea if you have to crawl into your truck frequently. I have a tool chest and numerous tools/stuff in the back of my truck. Always crawling in to get something. Chevy and Dodge will have something similar in the future.

 

[radman1]

john bud
Your right, the Duramax has become a very reliable engine but did have some issues in the early days. The ford 6.4 at this time is not as reliable. I have looked at the newer Chevys, but cant get over the front bumper. Big plastic shiney chrome appearing corners on the front bumper are just hideous.

 

[cp1969]

john bud
Your right, the Duramax has become a very reliable engine but did have some issues in the early days. The ford 6.4 at this time is not as reliable. I have looked at the newer Chevys, but cant get over the front bumper. Big plastic shiney chrome appearing corners on the front bumper are just hideous.

I like the looks of the GMC much better.

The tailgate step wouldn't be necessary if they hadn't unnecessarily lifted these trucks so high off the ground. The beds of these new trucks must be a foot higher off the ground than they were 20-25 years ago.

 

[jcmseven]

srsu99,

It would take a lot of tailgates to make up that weight difference. The Ford 250 tailgate weighes 96 pounds, the Dodge tailgate (at least the one lying in my friends garage from his 2005 model) is about 70. Where do the other 900 or so pounds come from?? There are not that many more do-dad's. As for mileage, if one buys a Ford with 4.10 or greater gears kiss fuel mileage goodbye. However, my 250 gets about 16 mpg in combination (highway with some city -- about 70/30) and my friend's Duramax does no better. It seems the Dodge engine does a little better but with the emissions standards, even it is not as good as the past on mileage.

John M

 

[jcmseven]

cp1969,

I agree, to me the GMC is much better looking this year than the Chevrolet. My friend went to get a Chevy, and I just could not let him do it, then I saw the GMC and thought it looked much better. Actually, it is a pretty sharp truck. I like GMC/Chevrolet, but really wish they would get the larger wheels (at least an 18") on the truck. From an aesthetic point of view, I do not like that so much frame shows, and one can easily see the parking brake cable which runs along the frame. With larger tires, the fender wells would be more full and I think they would look better. My JD dealer, who loves Chevy's has several to pull his delivery trailers. Even he said the style had yet to grow on him.

John M

 

[srsu99]

Well I was just going with what someone else said about the fords weighing more. I really dont know. Never scaled my 04 ford but it was the same size truck as my o6 dodge is. Yeah I forgot about the larger wheels. That is so annoying. All of my trailers use a 235 r 16 wheel. In the past when I got new tires for my pickup it meant "new" tires for a trailer. Also all of my trailers have 8 hole wheels so I had 2 spairs all the time a truck spair and the one mounted on the trailer. Now my truck spares still fit trailers but trailer spairs dont fit truck (wont clear the break calipers) Which if you live in or near town or drive down populated roads this is no big deal but......... when I travel to ranch in west texas its about 300 mile trip. Cell phone only works about half the time. Would hate to get stranded along that stretch a 2 a.m.. because my spairs dont fit other things.

 

[john_bud]

john bud
You're right, the Duramax has become a very reliable engine but did have some issues in the early days. The ford 6.4 at this time is not as reliable. I have looked at the newer Chevys, but cant get over the front bumper. Big plastic shiney chrome appearing corners on the front bumper are just hideous.

{chuckle}

I agree, the early 6.6 had head gasket issues, injectors and the stepper motors on the dash gauges go wonky. Still, there is at least one person hauling for a living with an '02 GM 3500 with 727,000 miles. Engine and tranny never been apart. Saw the post yesterday. Cross referenced with the GM 200,000 mile club where they were listed at 600,000 some miles. That is certainly the far end of the bell curve! I did the math and it can be done with about 1650-1800 hours of highway miles per year. Other folks are driving as hard and harder, but they trade off with "only" 2-400,000 miles. I don't think my 03 GM will ever reach those numbers. It just get's the normal 15k miles a year. About 2-5k pulling a 6 ton trailer with tractor/implements on it (9k pounds unually).

I also strongly agree that the GM HD truck is, well.... let's just say, "not pretty". The GMC version is nice. The Dodge is nicer still (externally) and the Ford looks the best.

I wonder what the Toyota 1 ton's will look like?


jb