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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
I just ordered the Toro ZX480. It will be here tomorrow night. I'll give a review after I get some seat time. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Cub Z-Force Experience
- Thread starter JimMorrissey
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Rubicon1
New member
I looked at the Timecutter series and found the EZT units on the Z models and the IZT units on the ZX models. To get the same componants as the Z-Force on the ZX, I had to pay about $1000 extra and it still had a stamped deck. Plus I liked the Kohler engine better. No thanks for me...
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Rubicon, I'm looking at the 48" deck, not the 52". Maybe the 52" ZX is $1000 more in your area. The 48" ZX model is the same price as the Z-Force 50" and looks generally to be made better. The finish work and plastic components are of a higher quality IMO. One example of that is the Toro has little hydraulic dampeners in the control arms so it's not so jerky when you hit a bump. Another is the engine area, the Toro is much cleaner without lots of wires and hoses hanging off. I also like the big rubber flap on the chute so you can get close to things without ripping them up. The brake is immediately set when you open the control arms. Yep, stamped deck...You can't get away from that unless you go commercial. I don't think it'll be a problem unless you hit a lot of rock walls or trees AND you never clean it.
Toro gives a full 3 year pick-up and delivery warranty, MTD gives a two year. That's worth something, especailly after three years of use.
The other factor for me is the Toro dealer is fantastic and I prefer to give he and his family my money. They do all the service and sales, the Cub is an unknown situation with questionable dealers within driving distance. -Everybody has a different situation. I'm sure the Cub will be a good machine.
In case anybody is wondering I was told by the Toro dealer the IZT transmission is good for 600 hours.
Toro gives a full 3 year pick-up and delivery warranty, MTD gives a two year. That's worth something, especailly after three years of use.
The other factor for me is the Toro dealer is fantastic and I prefer to give he and his family my money. They do all the service and sales, the Cub is an unknown situation with questionable dealers within driving distance. -Everybody has a different situation. I'm sure the Cub will be a good machine.
In case anybody is wondering I was told by the Toro dealer the IZT transmission is good for 600 hours.
Congrats on your purchase, and thats interesting about the 600 hours thing...
Its still ashamed though that your local dealer was poor...still going to let my dealer rep hear about it and see if they can't get something done.
Its still ashamed though that your local dealer was poor...still going to let my dealer rep hear about it and see if they can't get something done.
moss2940
Bronze Member
I am glad you found a mower.
I bet at any price level it is probably 6 of one and half a dozen of the other as to which is better.
It sounds like you have a good dealer with your's. You are probably miles ahead of me with that one item. I will have Lowe's to help me sort out any isuues I have. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I know a lot of things will go thru your mind when you are picking up your new Toro. If you can remember ask your dealer if Toro had an hour rating for their ztr's with the EZT axles. I would be curious to hear that.
Let us know how the Toro preforms when you get to use it.
Randy
I bet at any price level it is probably 6 of one and half a dozen of the other as to which is better.
It sounds like you have a good dealer with your's. You are probably miles ahead of me with that one item. I will have Lowe's to help me sort out any isuues I have. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I know a lot of things will go thru your mind when you are picking up your new Toro. If you can remember ask your dealer if Toro had an hour rating for their ztr's with the EZT axles. I would be curious to hear that.
Let us know how the Toro preforms when you get to use it.
Randy
Rubicon1
New member
Jim,
Part of that price difference, factored in the 10% discount Lowes offers for the Cubs. And I was comparing the 44" Z-Force to the 48" ZX. Maybe it was only $800 difference, I was going from memory. I looked again at the ZX specs and noticed it had the extended life Briggs and the 3 year warranty. Sounds like it's a nice machine.
Part of that price difference, factored in the 10% discount Lowes offers for the Cubs. And I was comparing the 44" Z-Force to the 48" ZX. Maybe it was only $800 difference, I was going from memory. I looked again at the ZX specs and noticed it had the extended life Briggs and the 3 year warranty. Sounds like it's a nice machine.
frank_f15
Super Member, Rest in Peace
What was the difference in $$$$ if there was any?
Rubicon1
New member
I looked again, comparing retail prices is exactly $1000 difference. $3699 for Z-Force 44" and $4699 for ZX480.
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
I called the dealer this morning and told him to "hold off on delivery". He was OK with it. I'm just not sure what to do now. I don't know if a ZRT is for me with this uneven lawn of mine. When I test drove the one on his lot it was VERY bouncy. I really don't want to have to wear a kidney belt when mowing the lawn! I used to use one as a kid riding a dirt bike, but not when mowing the lawn. The dealer doesn't have one to demo here on this property, so I reacted and stuck my head in the sand. I have to do something cuz the lawn is getting long /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I really think the commercial model is heavier and with larger wheels will take the irregularities better, although I just can't see spending 6K on a mower right now. Why do they have to put such little wheels on the residential models. Who'd of thought that a darn lawn mower could be such a nightmare to purchase. Maybe I'm thinking about it too much.
I really think the commercial model is heavier and with larger wheels will take the irregularities better, although I just can't see spending 6K on a mower right now. Why do they have to put such little wheels on the residential models. Who'd of thought that a darn lawn mower could be such a nightmare to purchase. Maybe I'm thinking about it too much.
Moon
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2002
- Messages
- 908
- Location
- SE Ohio, Meigs County
- Tractor
- Kubota L3010HST R4's, Scag Wildcat ZTR, 61
What caused you to delay delivery?
I wonder if the dealer would let you mow your lawn with it or a demo ZTR before signing on the dotted line?
From other posts you might have seen that a large part of my lawn used to be a tomato field. It's rough. I've mowed it with lots of different types of mowers (8n, GT, CUT w/RFM) and my ZTR beats em all. I do not go full speed over the rough areas, but I didn't go full speed with the others either. The ZTR gets done quicker because I can turn on a dime and keep the mower deck in grass that needs mowed ....insead of manuvering to get the piece that is missed with a conventional lawn tractor.
Hope this helps,
Moon of Ohio
I wonder if the dealer would let you mow your lawn with it or a demo ZTR before signing on the dotted line?
From other posts you might have seen that a large part of my lawn used to be a tomato field. It's rough. I've mowed it with lots of different types of mowers (8n, GT, CUT w/RFM) and my ZTR beats em all. I do not go full speed over the rough areas, but I didn't go full speed with the others either. The ZTR gets done quicker because I can turn on a dime and keep the mower deck in grass that needs mowed ....insead of manuvering to get the piece that is missed with a conventional lawn tractor.
Hope this helps,
Moon of Ohio
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Moon,
That is good to hear. I was worried that the ZRTs were going to be like riding a mechanical bull. The one I was able to ride around on was definitely a rough ride, but I used it on the dealer lot that was very rough. I got bounced all over.
I postponed delivery just because I got slightly cold feet in the AM after sleeping on it. I'm glad to hear from somebody with a less than perfect mowing surface who still thinks that ZRTs are the way to go.
Some of the guys here got me looking at Hustler now. I need to look at one of those before the Toro gets dropped off. Looks like a real nice machine for the $. It still has the IZT transmission, but the deck looks nearly commercial quality instead of stamped steel. It's also got a nice Honda double with 18hp and a 44" deck. We'll see.....The price is about $600 more than the Toro.
That is good to hear. I was worried that the ZRTs were going to be like riding a mechanical bull. The one I was able to ride around on was definitely a rough ride, but I used it on the dealer lot that was very rough. I got bounced all over.
I postponed delivery just because I got slightly cold feet in the AM after sleeping on it. I'm glad to hear from somebody with a less than perfect mowing surface who still thinks that ZRTs are the way to go.
Some of the guys here got me looking at Hustler now. I need to look at one of those before the Toro gets dropped off. Looks like a real nice machine for the $. It still has the IZT transmission, but the deck looks nearly commercial quality instead of stamped steel. It's also got a nice Honda double with 18hp and a 44" deck. We'll see.....The price is about $600 more than the Toro.
Rubicon1
New member
Jim you can get the Fastrac for the same money your spending on the Toro if you get one with a briggs engine instead of the Honda. Thats a $600 option. Your right, the Hustler deck is built just like a commercial unit with most everything else the same. I can't remember whick hydro the 44" had. The smaller ones have the EZT units. As the others have said, just go slower on the rough parts of the yard, you won't regret getting a ZTR. I like the Hustlers, they were just out of my price range. I just could pass up getting a Z-Force for $3200.
dfstrasser
New member
I believe that there is a optional spring kit avaliable for the seat of the Hustler. This will definately help with the bumps. You may want to look at the Gravely/Ariens if you have a dealer in your area. They come with seat springs and seem to offer alot for the money. I just bought a used Z-Force and it is no bumpier than anything else I have cut with. I run the tires at the lowest recommended pressure (8 psi) and it helps a little. Besides being fast, they are a lot more fun to drive.
OP
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Rub,
I think the ZForce will be a good machine.....and the price is definitely right. Let us know how she performs.
I think the ZForce will be a good machine.....and the price is definitely right. Let us know how she performs.
moss2940
Bronze Member
Well the Z-Force I ordered is not in yet.
I had a chance to stop by TSC and look at the Z-Force and the RZT. They are two completely different animals. They may share a few parts but that is about it.
It sure does not do much for the confidence factor checking back on the mowing website's to read about the different brands and opinions.
I feel as undecided as Jim is about ZTR's. I am sure the Z-Force is a much better machine than the old Snapper ZTR I had that much seems clear.
I mowed most of my lot the other day with a 21" walk behind, let me say that the worst riding lawnmower ever built clobbers that experience.
I am begining to waffle a little on the Z-Force. If it does not come in tommorow I think I might cancel the order and go but a Hustler mini-Fastrac. I was impressed with the one I drove but I was lured to the Z-Force because of the Kohler twin and the IZT axles.
After reading here and there on the subject I am begining to think that may have not been worth the trade off for the constuction benefit's of the Hustler.
ARGGH to much information and not enough experience.
I had a chance to stop by TSC and look at the Z-Force and the RZT. They are two completely different animals. They may share a few parts but that is about it.
It sure does not do much for the confidence factor checking back on the mowing website's to read about the different brands and opinions.
I feel as undecided as Jim is about ZTR's. I am sure the Z-Force is a much better machine than the old Snapper ZTR I had that much seems clear.
I mowed most of my lot the other day with a 21" walk behind, let me say that the worst riding lawnmower ever built clobbers that experience.
I am begining to waffle a little on the Z-Force. If it does not come in tommorow I think I might cancel the order and go but a Hustler mini-Fastrac. I was impressed with the one I drove but I was lured to the Z-Force because of the Kohler twin and the IZT axles.
After reading here and there on the subject I am begining to think that may have not been worth the trade off for the constuction benefit's of the Hustler.
ARGGH to much information and not enough experience.
OP
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Moss,
Not to try and sway your decison /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif but, if you are even thinking about canceling the order, I would do it. That will give you the mental freedom to continue the search. It's a lot of money and you want to be happy with what you purchase. You can always fall back to the Z-Force once you return from the overload fog. -I'm deep in the fog at this point too....
As Gamble says: The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. --Every single time I try to "save money", I end up wishing I hadn't a few month later, and I tell myself I'll NEVER do it again.
Oh....I've talked to some people that own ZRTs and got a couple of PMs for TBN and the overwhelming opinion is that ZRTs are for real. It's not just a fad. It'll force me to roll the lawn and spend a little filling and seeding the irregularities. The lawn will likely be better for it. I'm going to do it.
Not to try and sway your decison /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif but, if you are even thinking about canceling the order, I would do it. That will give you the mental freedom to continue the search. It's a lot of money and you want to be happy with what you purchase. You can always fall back to the Z-Force once you return from the overload fog. -I'm deep in the fog at this point too....
As Gamble says: The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. --Every single time I try to "save money", I end up wishing I hadn't a few month later, and I tell myself I'll NEVER do it again.
Oh....I've talked to some people that own ZRTs and got a couple of PMs for TBN and the overwhelming opinion is that ZRTs are for real. It's not just a fad. It'll force me to roll the lawn and spend a little filling and seeding the irregularities. The lawn will likely be better for it. I'm going to do it.
Spiffy
Veteran Member
If the IZT was the deciding factor [as opposed to service, or another intangible], I'd say you choose wisely, and should stick with the Z-Force. I also think the ZF has an articulating front end which you'll probably like, while the hustler mini is solid [I've been wrong before] . Beyond those two points, the hustler looks like a pretty good & solid machine.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Maker102
Bronze Member
I have also been debating on a Cub. My main reason for not acting yet is really kind of goofy but Cub does not have a Tech Support phone number. I like to call it and talk to those guys about what problems they are hearing about and if a lesser model will suit my needs. Many many times it has saved me alot of $$$$$. For example you can buy a king 5000 Select Comfort mattress for 1k less than full retail if you ask for a returned one. The kicker is that its a brand new mattress just 1k less. IMHO money in my pocket is better than money is someone elses.
MrWiggles2
Silver Member
I don't know if I am coming or going with some of you guys. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Do your homework first before you go ordering ZTR's and cancelling them. Of course its a hassle for the dealer, but my GOD, the mental anguish you're putting yourself through!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Remember, you're not marrying it. If it doesn't meet your expectations sell it. Good thing about ZTR's is if you keep them in good shape, they have very high resale values. For residential use, whether its an IZT or EZT, it'll work. If you were talking commercial apps, that would be different... course you wouldn't be looking at these models. Hate to see you guys struggle so hard with this decision....
Remember, you're not marrying it. If it doesn't meet your expectations sell it. Good thing about ZTR's is if you keep them in good shape, they have very high resale values. For residential use, whether its an IZT or EZT, it'll work. If you were talking commercial apps, that would be different... course you wouldn't be looking at these models. Hate to see you guys struggle so hard with this decision....
