creating a culvert
- Thread starter Mtsoxfan
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Although, I am rethinking about doing the job, very small stream, when running full in spring about 2' wide x 6" deep of water. Current set up is usually filled partially with leaves, causing water to erode alongside pipe, off to an angle.
Around here, people treat scraps like gold. Low income with Yankee ingenuity
Around here, people treat scraps like gold. Low income with Yankee ingenuity
paulsharvey
Super Member
So, I went back and double checked, and didn't see an answer; but what are we driver across it? You said wheel ruts, so its a vehicle; but are we talking 4 trips per day of passenger vehicles; heavy equipment; delivery vehicles; a compact utility tractor; an ATV/SxS? It's not gonna be an answer you like; but I'll just tell you what I would do; money is tight, 100% understand, and based on the 1st post, you have another longer way to get to the other side of the creek; I would either A: wait till you have the spare cash to do it right; or B: try your barrels; your not out any money if it fails. If you really bed them right, compact material, and have sufficient coverage; they might last 5 years. Anything you do to distribute the load will help; force acts downward and also at angles outward, reducing the point load (we are not applying 2000 pounds to the pipe from our point load, it's probably more like 1000 pounds with 6" cover; 500 pounds at 12" cover; and 250 # at 18" cover as the force goes outward as we move further away). I 'Think' if the barrels survive the back fill process (dirt is Heavy, roughly 100-120#/cf) it will last until corrosion eats the barrel. The substandard pipe material makes proper installation much more important, as you don't have the margine of error.
Practicing Engineers in the group, please don't beat my numbers up too much, I pulled them completely out of my butt.
Practicing Engineers in the group, please don't beat my numbers up too much, I pulled them completely out of my butt.
Jchonline
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Not sure about backfill...but first a 55 gal drum inner diameter is way over 18" right? YOu are going to hvae to dig very deep...and if not graded properly on both sides it will heavily silt in. Nightmare to clean out with that much silt in it.
If you ever have any heavy equipment brought in....most likely they will crush those 55 gal drums. They are not meant to hold much weight from the side of the can.
Are you sure you cannot re-purpose the 12" pipe or find another piece of it that you can mate to your existing pipe?
No matter what you choose make sure you use good packing material on both sides of the pipe (2" down to fines if you can) and compact it a few times before you start driving over it. As mentioned if you do not compact well, forces will move he pipe in the trench and create areas for water infiltration. This and grade on trench both sides (inlet and outlet) are probably the most critical points to proper installation.
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LD1
Epic Contributor
The thought-out comment was the fact that the barrels are ALOT larger than the current setup. Which requires ALOT of material to cover, and somehow keep the barrels together.
Then as others mentioned....heavy equipment....
Dont want to have an emergency, fire, etc and a squad or firetruck crushes and gets stuck.
Sorry, but im it the camp of do it right or dont do it at all. Especially when it comes to something that can hurt something (equipment/vehicles)....or someone.
4570Man
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You can buy a 18” plastic culvert for about $400 plus sales tax. The barrel is a bad idea from the start but you’ll need a lot of material to burry a 30” pipe in a ditch that’s too shallow. I usually use 20 tons of material to cover a 12” culvert. You probably need like 100 tons to cover a 30” that doesn’t fit the whole. Pay the money for the right size culvert or save up for later. The barrel will just be money wasted that you could have put towards doing the job right. Not cutting the ends completely smooth would be another mistake. Culverts stop up bad enough when they’re smooth having baffles inside would guarantee it stops up.
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ning
Elite Member
ok thinking out of the wrong end here but but wondering
could you dig a ditch
put something like rebar chairs down
put the barrels in
pour a few inches of concrete
pour a few more inches of concrete, hopefully with something to keep the barrels down
keep pouring a bit more concrete, perhaps some rebar here and there
and end up with a cheap-ish concrete culvert by using the sides of the ditch and the barrel as a form?
probably way too much work and needs enough rebar that you'd be better off buying a corrugated culvert...
could you dig a ditch
put something like rebar chairs down
put the barrels in
pour a few inches of concrete
pour a few more inches of concrete, hopefully with something to keep the barrels down
keep pouring a bit more concrete, perhaps some rebar here and there
and end up with a cheap-ish concrete culvert by using the sides of the ditch and the barrel as a form?
probably way too much work and needs enough rebar that you'd be better off buying a corrugated culvert...
WranglerX
Super Member
By the time you spend a lot of money on rebar and concrete, a "culvert" would have been cheaper...
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MAX-24-Dean
Veteran Member
Don't recall it being mentioned, but slope on the culvert so it is self cleaning is also important.
paulsharvey
Super Member
Can I throw another ghetto idea out? CMU "block" turned sideways, across the 6 ft creek; filter fabric, and then back fill. It's still not the right way to do it, and you still need good coverage as CMU aren't meant for side loads, but at least you won't have the corrosion issue. It's roughly 54 blocks to create an 8 ft wide , 6 ft long crossing, and I don't know what the creek bed looks like/how uniform it is. Might have 3 long at the bottom of creek bed, by 12 across, still, might narrow, and not the correct way to do it. The filter fabric would be 100% necessary, as your not going to mud up the gaps, and all.
Now, let me add, there is No way in heck I would do this if you had to purchase $150 worth of block and $100 worth of filter fabric... I would spend that money towards a proper pipe; but if you got a 6 dozen CMU in your bone yard....
Now, let me add, there is No way in heck I would do this if you had to purchase $150 worth of block and $100 worth of filter fabric... I would spend that money towards a proper pipe; but if you got a 6 dozen CMU in your bone yard....
paulsharvey
Super Member
I think before I considered the CMU or barrels, I would probably just place a rubble layer, and slope that banks to allow a hard bottom Ford. Don't know if you have stacks of rock, but water will run threw a rip rap rubble or bank and shore stone. If you have the material, or can get it Cheap, place 12" of that, place a 4" pvc bleed down orifice, and then another 12" of rip rap or bank and shore; Maybe in a storm even, some minor damming happens...
Edit; none of the above would work locally; you'd probably go to jail for daming the stream; and rock is expensive, only mention it cause (I assume) yall got rock up there in Vermont
Edit; none of the above would work locally; you'd probably go to jail for daming the stream; and rock is expensive, only mention it cause (I assume) yall got rock up there in Vermont
paulsharvey
Super Member
On pipes, I got to say, the idea of super small, 6, 8, 12" pipes, that people miss, complete disregarding debris clogs; you see an 18" pipe with 2" of water flowing on a normal day. That's great, but remember, everything past 9" of water in that pipe is a rapidly diminishing curve line of capacity. It's dang near exponential to the mid point, and the inverse above the mid point. So, it's a 6" creek, during a non flood event; that gives very little room for additional capacity in even minor rain events.
I'm not trying to make a bigger deal than needed; just trying to provide background info to explain my general statement, of get an 18" pipe, or drive around the long way until your ready to get the 18".
I'm not trying to make a bigger deal than needed; just trying to provide background info to explain my general statement, of get an 18" pipe, or drive around the long way until your ready to get the 18".
paulsharvey
Super Member
None of this is rocket science, and every road department, DOT, developer, deals with this a dozen times per week, across every possible environment, and some how, they all, independently, settled on the same solution, a 15-18" pipe of material that resists corrosion, with proper bedding, and sufficient cover.
Maybe that came out harsher than I really ment it, and I don't mean to be abrasive
Maybe that came out harsher than I really ment it, and I don't mean to be abrasive
Torvy
Super Member
I think at this point you are arguing with yourself.
paulsharvey
Super Member
Well, I'm torn on advice to our OP. Either do it right, or atleast give his bad idea the best chance of success possible. There is a right way to do it (and it sounds like he's not going to do that), and then about a dozen bad ideas, that may possibly offer a temp solution, that he might actually do...
Torvy
Super Member
Understood. Sometimes we all find excellent ways to spend other people's money. Most of us are guilty of solving a problem posters didn't ask us to solve. Part of the culture here at TBN. 
I am tuned into this thread because now that my house is basically done, I can move on to water management. We get 47+ inches of rain a year here, but only 83 rainy days...roughly 1/2 inch of rain average per rainy day. Yesterday there was enough condensation on my roof in the morning that the water puddled at the bottom of my downspouts. No creeks, ponds or lakes on the property, but all exist nearby.
I am tuned into this thread because now that my house is basically done, I can move on to water management. We get 47+ inches of rain a year here, but only 83 rainy days...roughly 1/2 inch of rain average per rainy day. Yesterday there was enough condensation on my roof in the morning that the water puddled at the bottom of my downspouts. No creeks, ponds or lakes on the property, but all exist nearby.
paulsharvey
Super Member
It's not uncommon for TBN to find a $30k solution to a $2k problem
Eagle1
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We are guilty of overthinking a solution or redoing it multiple times. Lacking funds limits your option on the day and sometimes temporary is better than nothing. I've become pretty adept of making do until I get the right materials in hand. Keep your eyes open and a culvert (or similar) may drop into your lap.
I've got a couple of 20+ foot long 18" stand pipes (really thick and heavy) that I've re used several times to create temporary culverts, like to get a dozer across my creek, etc.
I've got a couple of 20+ foot long 18" stand pipes (really thick and heavy) that I've re used several times to create temporary culverts, like to get a dozer across my creek, etc.
Torvy
Super Member
It drives my wife crazy, but I hesitate to get rid of 'spare' parts and things that may be useful. I'm not a hoarder, I don't go get stuff and accumulate...you just never know when you might need something.
