Coyotes and Deer

/ Coyotes and Deer #141  
Bingo! And if you countered their ideas with your own they might feel the same way, right?

Nope, you are equating "first, do no harm" with "I think I know what I am doing." They are not comparable in principle or action.

That is not a rational conclusion. That is like saying your house is on fire but since you don't know all the principles of fire fighting that you don't try something. Even if you're not a professional fire fighter you know not to throw gasoline on it and you have at least a vague notion that water might help. Doing nothing can be as detrimental as doing something. Doing nothing will achieve the same outcome as thwoing gasoline on it. And it really isn't fair to tell someone else they shouldn't throw water on their burning house just because they aren't a firefighter.......especially when your house is not on fire.

This is a poor analogy in that nature (minus human impacts) left to its own devices, does not need saving or to be improved upon. And again, you are comparing managed habitat, a house, a farm, etc., with un-managed habitat.

And again, aren't you the one arguing that we'd all be in hot water if the liberals hadn't been doing something?

I you think about it, what environmentalists, most commonly found among the liberal persuasion these days, do for the most part is to try to stop projects that will have detrimental effects on wildlife populations and habitats. Actually, they are asking that others do nothing, or at least do something less harmful. In some cases, environmentalists will actively "do" something such as restore habitat, because somebody else did harm in the past. If you want to argue the semantics of "do" you are missing the point. Yes, this is a generalization.

And I'm all for leaving some stuff alone if that's what seems like the best thing to do. I like to think that there are areas that are "pristine" and "untouched". But that is still a choice that is based on how we want things to be. And leaving habitat alone is not always the best policy. We often put out forest fires in our national parks even though the fires are part of a natural, regenerative process. There are good arguments on both sides of that issue.

We put out forest fires in national parks, which are only partially protected reserves, in part because we are playing catch-up with past policies that "seemed" liked the best thing to do when they were used, or because bark beetles have killed millions of trees, or because we want to save homes. That's the problem with not knowing enough. You may believe we have a choice about the way we "want things to be" but history tells us we, or following generations, often get something else. It only takes a smidgen of humility to admit that.

George, we have beat this to death. I appreciate sharing viewpoints with you, but I'm done with it. It's your thread.
 
/ Coyotes and Deer #142  
Dave, we'll start relocating coyotes to your county to "put things into balance" and see where things are in 10 years time.... Go back a few generations there were no coyotes in the eastern US, they were all out west. How do you suppose they got to spread across the entire US, which they had never done before in such a short time ? Perhaps the same way Canadian wolves ended up the the Michigan UP ? Do gooders "restoring the habitat" ?
 
/ Coyotes and Deer #143  
I have seen a coyote following a deer on its tail, deer was moving quickly to get away.
I have always heard they only bother injured deer. I am not sure it the one I saw was
injured or not.

I have seen a coyote circle my cows before, Cows paid no attention to it at all after several up and
around trips, I shot it.
 
/ Coyotes and Deer #144  
I have seen a coyote following a deer on its tail, deer was moving quickly to get away.
I have always heard they only bother injured deer. I am not sure it the one I saw was
injured or not.

I have seen a coyote circle my cows before, Cows paid no attention to it at all after several up and
around trips, I shot it.

Coyotes definitely take down healthy deer where I'm from. It is on an island with relatively few wide open spaces so they hunt in the forest where I imagine the deer cannot run quite as quickly as in an open field.
 
/ Coyotes and Deer
  • Thread Starter
#145  
George, we have beat this to death. I appreciate sharing viewpoints with you, but I'm done with it. It's your thread.

Well, I did start it. :)
 
/ Coyotes and Deer
  • Thread Starter
#150  
/ Coyotes and Deer #151  
If a thread lasts long enough, no matter the topic, it always morphs into a liberal vs conservative argument. Americans are weird that way.

Although this one was mostly civil I still sense you guys would rather shoot each other than go after coyotes or deers.
 
/ Coyotes and Deer
  • Thread Starter
#152  
The pen (printed word) is mightier than the sword (.270).
 
/ Coyotes and Deer
  • Thread Starter
#154  
This would depend on who is wielding either instrument ! :D:laughing:

Rich

That's true and as long as the liberals are more than 200 yards away then they are safe with me since I'm better with the pen than the .270. :laughing:
 
/ Coyotes and Deer #155  
I have never hunted coyotes, mainly because back home in Montana they were shot on sight by farmers, ranchers etc. so they were few and far in between. An Aunt and Uncle own a 16,000 acre cattle ranch and they have pretty much shot all predators on sight for decades. Coyotes because they go after new born calves, foxes and weasels go after the chickens etc etc. During the same period they have been massively over run by gophers. The gophers themselves are a problem because of all the holes they leave where a spooked cow or horse could break a leg etc. I was out visiting one time and we went gopher hunting. The first day we drove one direction on the ranch and shot 500 gophers between the two of us. The next day we drove the other way and shot 300. This is never getting out of the truck mind you. Didn't even make a dent. Obviously they have gone too far in 'predator control' and caused other problems.

Now here in Idaho where I have hunted the last 2 years there are an unbelievable number of coyotes. This is desert type terrain so you can see a lot more of what is going on in the area versus the forest areas I grew up hunting. Just from listening to them yap and pack up in the evening you can tell there are a lot of coyotes. What surprised me is how close in proximity they are to the deer. Hunter Orange is optional here so we were hunting wearing camo. Many times we would be sitting still somewhere and a coyote would saunter by at 30 yards or so. Every doe and fawns (seemed most had twins) that we saw there was a coyote or two within yards of them. That is the first time I have seen that kind of coyote pressure on deer. On the other hand most still had their twins so I am not sure how many fawns actually get taken by the coyotes. At hunting season time the fawns are about half-grown so pretty good size compared to the coyotes which seem to run a little small here compared to back home. But it appeared that the coyotes were always just hanging around them maybe hoping to get a fawn off by itself.

That really got me wondering about the interaction between coyotes and deer. I have always assumed that deer, with the exception of new fawns, were too big of an animal for coyotes to bother with.
 
/ Coyotes and Deer #158  
I find it interesting that people say you cannot kill enough coyotes to lesson their numbers. We used to have wolves in the eastern US but we do not anymore with a few exceptions. Humans wiped out the wolves in the eastern US and certainly coyotes could be taken out if so desired.

As I understand it, coyotes are a lot more adaptable to human presence than wolves. Coyotes adapt to urban/suburban areas, wolves did not.

Although probably more of a joke than anything, I've heard it said that the two most resilient species on earth are the coyote and the cockroach.
 
/ Coyotes and Deer
  • Thread Starter
#159  
/ Coyotes and Deer #160  
And us.:indifferent:


No, what I've heard is that coyotes and cockroaches will be around long after mankind is gone.

But why the sad face in reference to "us" surviving? Are you one of those environmentalists who will only be happy when mankind has been removed?

Ken
 

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