Corriher should know better

[Tractors4u]

I saw a listing on Ebay for a Yanmar 2210 with live PTO. I figured it was one of the rookie tractor dealers, but I was wrong. They said it in their title and description. Corriher Yanmar

 

[thegreatrandini]

I saw that also. I have never ran a tractor with a live pto. I know some of them have a double clutch. I always wanted to know the exact difference. I remember some tractors that you had to be moving for the pto to spin. For awhile I thought if you could sit and run say a post hole digger that you had a live pto. I learned that was not true a few years ago. I still want to know what capabilties a true live pto has over the 2210. I know I can get a little push from implements. What is the simple answer?

 

[Tractors4u]

The 2210 does not have live PTO, however they (10 and 20 series Yanmars) are considered by some to be safer to use with a rotary cutter because of their powershift transmission. Because you can shift the tractor to neutral without clutching people feel that they are safer than a regualr gear tractor which would continue to move under the power of the rotary cutter even if you push in the clutch.

The PTO of the 2210 and most grey market Yanmars is tied directly to the gearing in the rear end of the tractor.

Some tractors have a two stage clutch. If you have the tractor in gear and the PTO engage and press the clutch in half way, the tractor will stop. Press the clutch all the way in and the PTO will stop turn. That type is considered a live PTO.

There are some tractors with "live independent" PTO. On some tractors the PTO is activated by pulling a knob or flipping a switch and is independent from the clutch.

To prevent the "push" you describe you need to add and over-run coupler to your PTO shaft. This is not the same as a slip disk. The ORC is a big ratchet. When you press the clutch on your tractor and the rotary cutter blade continues to spin and in turn spins the drive shaft, the ORC will free spin, "ratcheting" and the PTO on the tractor will remain stationary. Some tractors without live PTO have an ORC built in.

 

[thegreatrandini]

My tiller has a big overrunning clutch but I think it is designed to protect the tiller? I did understand the live pto correctly. I don't think u'd want a two stage clutch with the powershift. I have pretty much figured out how to not get any push but I should prob pick up and install an ocr. The wife keeps wanting tractor lessons. I should get one on it just in case she ever mows. I have just been the laziest human on the planet lately. Do you often have to cut the pto shafts after u install the orc? Thanks

 

[Tractors4u]

Having a 2 stage clutch with a power shift would not be a problem. Really the only time you will get a PTO push is from a rotary cutter. That blade builds up a lot of stored energy and will spin for a few minutes. On a tractor without a second stage clutch or ORC, that spinning blade is the same as having an engine back there. With a tiller, finish mower, post hole digger, etc, you won't have enough momentum to push the tractor.

 

[California]

On the YM240 (US version YM2000) an overun clutch is inside the PTO.

The first time I heard it I was concerned. It sounded like coasting on a bicycle except 50 times louder. I thought it was an almost-engaged gear.

Just like a bicycle, it allows the back to spin free without pushing the gears ahead of the PTO.


re Corriher - they don't seem to know everything. Last year I bid their Ebay auction titled "Yanmar fuel filter assembly - complete" and found it won't take Yanmar filter elements. I wish they had described it as generic.

 

[cfoxmd]

I think my FX28 D does have a live PTO--separate switch PTO including neutral.

 

[Tractors4u]

Hmmm, I am trying to remember the PTO engagement setup on the FX26D that I had. I am thinking that mine was a lever similar to a gear shift that was engaged by using the clutch.

 

[YanmarFever]

Im sorry to say that the FX28 does not have a live pto.
In fact most if not all the gray yanmars do not.
Running a mower without a slip clutch is asking for trouble. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
my .02 Ernie
Ernies imports

 

[tractor123]

There must be some confusion about live PTO. Live PTO is the ability to stop the movement of the tractor while keeping the PTO turning. All hydrostatic tractors have live PTO since when you release the pedal, the tractor stops moving and the PTO continues running. This is the same with power shift on the Yanmar tractors, when you shift into N (without even touching the clutch) the tractor movement is halted and the PTO continues to turn making these power shift models have live PTO... I am Rick with Corriher Implement Co., Inc...

 

[LMTC]

Interesting. The Powershift never fit my definition of "Live PTO", but your post sent me reading, and I may be abandoning my position. It seems what I considered "Live" is really "Live Independent". Read the article at this link.
http://www.unionfarmequip.com/tips/tip0009.html

This may be splitting hairs, but while I digest this, I am inclined to agree with Rick. Brent, any thoughts after reading the above article?

Rick--I have been to the Newton store in a previous life. Is Charles still in Lenoir? There was a BBQ joint down the road from the Lenoir place, lemme see, a right out of the lot, and a right several blocks later when the road ended in a "T", and then it was on your left. Little place, BBQ ribs, slaw, hush puppies. Can't get that up north, just doesn't exist around here. Man, it was good.

 

[Tractors4u]

After having read the article I still say that the powershift is not a true live PTO. At the same time I would say that it is somewhere between a live PTO and one that is not.

Here is a scenario. I have a finish mower on the back of my John Deere 4310 gear tractor with live PTO and shuttle shift. I want to slowly back the mower in between two trees to mow. I shift to reverse and ride the clutch ever so slightly as to not back into the fence behind those two trees. My mower never slows or stops because of the live PTO.

Now with the same scenario I am using my former YM2620D or FX26D. As I back up with the mower and ease that clutch in my mower starts to slow down.

You may say that my technique for mowing is all wrong. For safety's sake I am using the clutch instead of shifting without the clutch to keep from running through that fence I mentioned.

 

[thegreatrandini]

I see! That is how I mow. I understand the difference of the capabilities. Thanks

 

[JerryG]

To all. Live PTO means it stays "Live" when the movement of the tractor is stopped. The tractor movement is dead and the PTO is still a live.

 

[Tractors4u]

I don't agree with that either. I can take a little Yanmar YM1500 that is definately not a live PTO tractor and run the PTO without the tractor moving. Simply put the PTO in gear, take the tractor out of gear and let the clutch out.

 

[JerryG]

Brent,
The dead part of the drive train has to be while in gear.

 

[JASTN70D]

Jerry

I agree that is the definition . What Brent is saying is true and also why there is so much confusion about this subject. But the definition used is correct. Almost any definition could be argued if you think about it.

It seems to come down to weather some one was trying to intentionally mislead and I don't see that as the case at all I think they are just using the definition as it is used in the industry and should not be chided for doing so.

 

[lens12]

There are 3 common styles of PTO: transmission driven, live, & independant. The transmission driven style has one clutch. When the clutch is stepped on the pto is disengaged. This is what most Japanese model tractors have. The powershift models can be operated like a live pto ,but they are not live. When the powershift is shifted into nuetral a gear is being disengaged not a clutch. Using the Corriher definition a Ym1500 could be called a live pto. The transmission can be shifted out of gear without using the clutch & the pto will still turn.

An independant pto has 2 clutches. When the clutch pedal is depressed half way the tractor transmission is disengaged , but not the pto. The clutch pedal has to be pushed more than half way to disengage the pto. This was a common style in the late 50's. An example of this style would be a JD2030 or a Ford 981.

The live pto works independantly from the clutch pedal. It may be electrically , hydraulically or mechanically activated. This is the style used by most models of US farm tractors from 1970 & newer. Some early examples would be the 20 & 30 series two cylinder JD tractors.

Both the live & independant have a transmission shaft that is hollow with a pto shaft inside of it.

 

[larso1]

I certainly don't have the experience and knowledge in tractors that Mr. Shaeffer has, but from all the reading I've done the past few years on all the different tractor forums, sites, etc., I must take exception.

I understand the three types are as follows (and makes sense to me anyway):

standard PTO: driven off the transmission, will turn when clutch pedal is out (engaged), will turn when clutch is in (disengaged) but tractor is coasting (bushhog pushing the tractor problem), will stop when clutch is in and tractor is not moving.

live PTO: commonly the two-stage clutch version where the clutch is pushed in (disengaged) part way which disengages the transmission but not the PTO, and when pushed in all the way disengages both the tranny and PTO. I think the Allis CA was one of the first in '51(?) with the ability to engage/disengage the PTO separately from the tranny but had a separate hand lever (maybe a crude version of Independent PTO?).

independent PTO: separate lever, switch, etc. that was in no way connected to the tranny...in other words "independent." Could be hydraulically actuated and driven, electrically actuated and mechanically/hydraulically driven, or mechanically actuated and driven.

Or, I could be wrong! in which case, please enlighten me!

Bill in CO

 

[tractor123]

hi from tractor123. I think most of you are correct escept on the ym1500 to put the tractor back in gear you must use the clutch stopping the PTO. yanmar sold their tractors direct in the earley 1970/S in about 1981 YANMAR had the POWER SHIFT it was adveristed as live PTO you do not have to use the clutch to to start or stop in eather directhion. thanks Ted