considering this trailer...

[thistlemagnate]

We're an hour from the nearest state forestry pumper truck, which serves as our fire protection. I've got everything around the house well cleaned out within 100 yards. As fire season comes on I whack the weeds and grass back with a brush hog. Flammables (gasoline) go out into the middle of the field, not near the house. Disc the perimeter if a fire approaches. House itself is reasonably fireproof, with no wooden decks and stucco exterior walls and a metal roof. Fire would have to get up into the eaves before it took off. More likely is an accident with the wood stove when we have 3 ft of snow on the ground.

We're very remote, land is as much vertical as it is horizontal, lots of rocks and ponderosa pine and brush. Somebody on foot with a shovel, wet gunny sack, and 5 gallon bladder bag would in many cases be more effective than some humongous double axle trailer with 500+ gallons of water being pulled by a shiny new $50k pickup. If it's a brush fire and not much wind, the gunny sack may be enough. If the trees are crowning out, you will need a D8 and multiple aircraft doing retardant drops. You can always imagine wanting more water, an appropriate size depends on the terrain and ground cover and towing vehicle and budget.

For my firewagon, I'm thinking a single 275 gallon IBC tank. Also on the firewagon: a Honda WX10 pump, a couple hundred feet of 3/4" garden hose and nozzle, an appropriate suction hose, gunny sacks, bucket, shovel, polaski, saw, 2 meter amateur radio, cb radio. Weight of the water is 275*8.34 = 2294 lbs, all the rest (except the trailer itself) would add less than 10% to that.

The trailer could be my small 4x8 with a single 3000 lb axle, more likely the bed of my 25 yr old 4wd F250-HD pickup. Have a reservoir uphill (perhaps multiple IBC tanks) to quickly fill the tank on the firewagon. Or just use the Honda pump from a pond, would take 10 minutes at the WX10's rate of 30 gallons/minute. When fire threatens, tank on the wagon might remain full for weeks.

That trailer you are looking at could be fine, depends on how the wheels are attached, $200 seems a very good price. Before spending days making it right, load up 1.5x the weight you plan on having. (I've seen 6000 lbs on a 3000 lb axle). Check how badly the wheels bow out or flatten. Then hook it up and drive around in the worst of your local terrain as if you have a hot brush fire chasing you. If it survives, go for it.

Another option somewhere between a single axle and the M200 trailer would be a small beat up double axle horse trailer. These can be quite cheap, just cut the top off. Make sure it has working trailer brakes if your towing vehicle can't safely stop all that weight on a slope.

 

[thistlemagnate]

A town near here had a 4wd Dodge Powerwagon from the mid 1960's, fully equipped as a fire truck with 300 gallon tank and pump, was being sold for $3k. Very cool! I probably should have bought it for use on the property. What stopped me was insurance for taking it out on public roads, which severely limited the use I might have for it. Since it's rated at over 1.5 tons, I was told by multiple insurance agents that I would need to buy yearly commercial insurance for it, no chance these days to just have part time "farm use" insurance. Would cost well over $1k/yr. Ironic that the insurance companies kept me from getting a fire truck to protect the property.

Sliding a 275 gallon frame tank and a WX10 pump into the bed of the $4k F250-HD that I needed anyway pencils out way better, but not nearly as much fun.

 

[thistlemagnate]

Peace wrote "Hagerty".

Interesting, might work, would have considered them. Not clear they would insure a 2 ton truck. They do have a $3500 minimum valuation (which I think was exactly the asking price of that firetruck). I would have been looking for just enough cheap liability insurance to be legal. The minimum valuation suggests Hagerty might be a bit more upscale, perhaps preferring to insure the paint job on your Jaguar. Anyways, I need the F250-HD for occasional use with the gooseneck stock trailer and equipment trailer, so using that same truck for fire is the more practical solution. Additional cost is mostly in the WX10 pump. But having an old firetruck would be very cool.

Edit: I'm leaning toward the F250 rather than the 4x8 trailer. Easier to maneuver.

 

[ning]

Everyone loves their honda power equipment, but I haven't seen a proper fire pump that's honda branded yet.
Honda powered, maybe.
The Honda WX10 has a great price point, but its maximum pressure is 52 psi - this isn't a fire pump - that's typical household well pressure. I'd rather have significantly higher psi to get better spray and distance.
My thought is that the pump is probably the place to put the money in such a setup - you can have the best trailer, biggest tank, etc, but with a normal pump it's not going to push the water very far.
This pump is pricey, but it's got great stats.

 

[ljjhouser]

What kind of axle is it? Looks like a small size square rod. ?????

Looks like a 2" 2000 pound - unless it is simply a sq tube - either way, not good. Water is a heavy load. Probably will bend the first bump it hits. The heavy large pipes gives the impression it will load heavy, but that axle does not. Might want to look at the rating of those old tires. What did they load when new?

 

[thistlemagnate]

Ning wrote: "The Honda WX10 has a great price point, but its maximum pressure is 52 psi - this isn't a fire pump - that's typical household well pressure."
Depends on your needs. If you are fighting an apartment fire and have hydrants nearby, go big. If it's a spot fire on a canyon wall, it's shovel, bladder bag, and wet gunny sack. The WX10 would be fine for helping stop the head of a brush fire. If you have a rig with a 1000 gallon tank and a pump that does 200 gallons per minute, it's may be too big to get near the fire in rough country. And after dumping all that water in 5 minutes, the round trip to the nearest water source for a refill might take an hour.

 

[ning]

Ning wrote: "The Honda WX10 has a great price point, but its maximum pressure is 52 psi - this isn't a fire pump - that's typical household well pressure."
Depends on your needs. If you are fighting an apartment fire and have hydrants nearby, go big. If it's a spot fire on a canyon wall, it's shovel, bladder bag, and wet gunny sack. The WX10 would be fine for helping stop the head of a brush fire. If you have a rig with a 1000 gallon tank and a pump that does 200 gallons per minute, it's may be too big to get near the fire in rough country. And after dumping all that water in 5 minutes, the round trip to the nearest water source for a refill might take an hour.

The point of PSI isn't necessary GPM - while a pump capable of higher PSI often can also do higher GPM, it's not always the case.

I'd like high PSI choked down to the same GPM and just push the water out farther; 20 GPM at 50psi lasts just as long as 20 GPM at 125psi, and the pumps aren't much different in size and weight.

 

[Budweiser John]

400 gallons of water is about 3,300 pounds. Be extremely careful of the balance point of the tank so it is tung heavy. I would pop for a two axel trailer minimum.

B. John

 

[Fxfymn413]

Retired fire fighter and antique apparatus collector. The previous posts are spot on; fire trucks that are going out of service are basically dirt cheap. Just make sure the pump has passed an annual pump test and that the tank is not leaking. Like all heavy trucks repairs are expensive, but given the minimal use you would give it I wouldn't expect that repairs would be likely. And if it does need a major repair scrap it and go get another one.

The one downside is it needs to be kept somewhere that will prevent it from freezing, But that is also true for your home made rig.

Look on SPAAMFAA's web site as well as the government auction sites.

I live in a rural area and my "extinguisher" is a hose reel in my garage with enough hose to reach everywhere in the house. If you have a good detection system, i.e. smoke detectors and heat detectors in the attic to alert you of an incipient fire, a green line will put out a lot of fire.

Planning a response is great, but practicing good prevention is even better.

 

[ning]

400 gallons of water is about 3,300 pounds. Be extremely careful of the balance point of the tank so it is tung heavy. I would pop for a two axel trailer minimum.

B. John

maybe this one
If my land was flat, maybe

 

[CoyPatton]

Do a bit of math!
Water weight is just shy of 8.5lbs per gallon.
For simple math I will use 8lbs/gallon
400 gallons
8
——————
3200 lbs
(Yes it is low by almost 200lbs)
But you now have 300lbs for everything else using your 3500lbs guess at weight capacity.
Everything else is your pump, plumbing, hoses, and trailer frame weight (mist folks fail to include this one, but it is in the axle!)
Bottom line even using your axle capacity, you are way overloaded, then you are on rough terrain, which is hard on trailers.
I suggest looking for a 12k to 14k equipment trailer, even if it needs to be rebuilt, you have a much better base to carry 1000 gallons

 

[thistlemagnate]

400 gallons of water is about 3,300 pounds. Be extremely careful of the balance point of the tank so it is tung heavy. I would pop for a two axel trailer minimum.

B. John

A half empty tank can be worse than a full one, sloshing to the back when you accelerate (edit: or go up a hill), to the side when you corner. Figure out your worst case balance point.

When I was about 16 I had a summer job with a local farmer. Had me follow him over the county roads as he tore around at 60mph, me in a pickup with a half full 55 gallon drum of fuel. He thought it was really funny watching me try to steer that thing. I had no idea where he was going, figured I had to keep up. Now some 50 years smarter, I'd just pull over and wait for him to find me. He paid by the hour.

 

[composter55]

My solution would be to build a trailer with a pump and equipment on the front, but create a slide on and off bed for 275 salon totes. Maybe a tilt mechanism? Idea is to have multiple totes already filled
(I'd use roof runoff), so you could swap tanks instead of waiting to refill. Also have pump set up
so you could get fellow resident to haul backup feed tanks on their pickups or trailers. Always thought
forest fires could be better fought by getting residents/hunters, etc to use their trucks to haul water
to the pumps...or helicopters than the time it takes them to find and refill from nature.

 

[ning]

My solution would be to build a trailer with a pump and equipment on the front, but create a slide on and off bed for 275 salon totes. Maybe a tilt mechanism? Idea is to have multiple totes already filled
(I'd use roof runoff), so you could swap tanks instead of waiting to refill. Also have pump set up
so you could get fellow resident to haul backup feed tanks on their pickups or trailers. Always thought
forest fires could be better fought by getting residents/hunters, etc to use their trucks to haul water
to the pumps...or helicopters than the time it takes them to find and refill from nature.

I considered the idea of swapping full totes, but given my past experience, the tractor probably won't be pulling the trailer as it's really useful for cutting lines in the meadow - 50% of fire approach direction to my house, and the direction that I'm most likely going to be effective to actually put out a fire, is from the meadow (which I do mow at the end of spring). In the other direction the neighbors have significant trees & brush across the road separating our properties; if a raging fire comes from there, I'm not likely to try to fight it directly but will concentrate on wetting down my property & house instead - after the house is evacuated and until I GTFO.

In the recent past, my neighbor decided to remove blackberry brambles in the meadow using fire (this was "before fire season" mmmhmmmm except it's fire season here any time that the vegetation isn't saturated), and I was nearby and was able to scrape some lines as well as push a bramble that was on fire at the far end away from an almost adjoining bramble to avert further spread. The tractor's useful here on its own.

Instead, my 4x4 truck will be pulling it, likely piloted by my son (unless he's elsewhere... lots of things have to line up for a successful fight against fire) while I manage the tractor work.

Pros of swapping totes: Don't have to wait for refill. Sounds fantastic!

Cons of swapping totes:

• Return trailer to location of full tote storage/refill location
• Return tractor to location of full tote storage/refill location (as noted above, tractor is probably not pulling the trailer)
• If tractor is pulling the trailer, the trailer needs to be disconnected from the tractor and stabilized (M200A1 trailer has rear stands, plus the wheels need to be chocked).
• Disconnect empty tote(s) from pump
• Detach empty tote(s) from trailer itself
• Have to have significant counterweight on back of tractor even to pick up a 250g tote (~2150 pounds).
• Tractor has to have enough loader capacity - my loader has a lift capacity (to full height) of 2100 pounds, so even a full 250g tote is going to be close (especially considering the weight of the forks is part of that capacity - I'm not sure I could actually pick up a full 250g tote), and a 275g or larger will be out of the question.
• Use tractor to perform the swap (or at least to put full totes onto the trailer since I can probably just grab the empties off of the trailer more quickly than lining up the forks etc)
• Attach new full tote(s) to trailer
• Connect new full tote(s) to pump

We've got ready access to open water on half of my property, and refilling the trailer's tank - totes or otherwise - will involve something like

1. Move trailer to water source
2. Toss refill hose (with strainer) into pond or irrigation canal
3. Flip lever(s)* near pump to suck from refill hose instead of tank
4. Flip lever(s)* near pump to push to tank instead of "fire hose"
5. Turn on pump
6. Undo #5, #4, #3, #2, #1

I suspect it would be quicker to refill the tank directly than to swap totes, and less prone to accident as well.

*: Precise details TBD

 

[bcp]

You could set up a tote-to-tote refill, too, instead of a tote swap. Maybe have some placed at different places on the property. Pump transfer or gravity fill.

Bruce

 

[ning]

You could set up a tote-to-tote refill, too, instead of a tote swap. Maybe have some placed at different places on the property. Pump transfer or gravity fill.

Bruce

That's a good idea!

 

[hslogger]

Around here in western Oregon, all the farmers have flatbed truck with a big skid tank and all the trimmings to make a quick attack.Some have some are tandem axle jobs with two or three thousand gallon tanks. Some are dedicated but most are temporary for summer harvest season.

Buddaymine in Lower Lake CA has a seventies USFS Dodge with a five hundred gallon tank, v4 Wisconsin. The other rig is a GMC eighteen footer with a larger tank and a Honda. Trucks are great as long as you treat them as a USEABLE rig and not some POS sitting in the bushes. When you want fire protection, you want it RTFN. Both his rigs get used regularly ie exercised. He fills from a RRcar holding tank up on a hill with gravity refill.

He went through the Rocky Fire in 2015 and only had the Dodge and Calfire air drops. You can't go cheap on fire protection.

 

[Martin Roper]

I've been thinking of building a fire tank/pump/hose trailer for firefighting for a while and I just ran across this trailer for sale somewhat locally.

The question is, how to determine a likely capacity of this trailer's axles? I see 6 lugs, but from the pic (the ad says nothing) I can't see much more - the brake drums look pretty small. 3500 pound capacity axle?

My thought is probably cut off the risers that held the pickup bed and weld some cross members directly to the round tube such that the flatbed is as low as can be (probably limited to the height of the tongue tube, unless we cut that back a foot and tie it to a new crossmember there). I'm able to do some welding (up to 3/16" mild steel with the current mig rig, but I'm willing to upgrade to weld heavier stuff if I find the appropriate project that requires it (oh no! don't make me buy a better welder!)).

Given that my use would be entirely low speed and very local (ie, pulled my tractor or my truck on my land or immediately adjacent), how tight would you stick to the capacity?
View attachment 714475

Looks typical of a fuel cube trailer to me and the cube bolted on would be part of the strength so it would only be deigned to carry 1000 litres but would probably carry a lot more if only on your property but there could be the time you just want to "pop down the road with it". May be not.