considering Grillo 85d

[tw3934]

I am currently considering a Grillo 85d or the BCS 732. First job is to till up a 1/2 ac field that has not been touched in awhile. Want to get a rotary plow at first instead of the tiller box.

A few questions:

1. Does the rotary plow make more sense for this job? Eventually I will probably get the tiller, but the rotary seems best suited since I think there are many rocks and there is heavy sod.

2. What happens when the rotary plow hits a very large rock that does not dislodge? does it stall, jump or scoot around it? Is the plow durable?

3. Should I be looking at the 10HP kohler engine option that includes the larger wheels or get the 9HP Honda and pay extra for the larger wheels (if Grillo)? Are the 5" wheel extensions mandatory? How much of an issue is power as the BCS has a 11HP Honda standard?

4. Is the 8HP diesel option worth it (if Grillo)? Does it manual start OK? Probably will not have hundreds of hours a year running it. Just considering the durability and torque as advantages....

I have been researching, but looking for practical input from this forum...

Thanks,
Tim

 

[SageBrush]

I would recommend the Grillo 107D with Honda power. Skip the 85D.

For breaking rocky soil, I would hire it done or get it done with a larger tractor. Use a turning plow and then disc it enough to get out there and pick up rocks. If you can't do that, use a plow behind a Grillo first. It depends on what you consider rocky though, a tiller might just handle it fine.

I think the tiller is more useful then a rotary plow alone. Best to have both, but the tiller is more useful by itself. Grillo is a smaller machine than say a diesel 853, if going to a diesel I would rather have a BCS 853. For the money I don't really see the point of the 85D. Even as a tiller only I like my steering brakes on the 107D. The gas motors are fine without e-start, I like mine just fine. Easy to start, no battery, no key switch, no charging coil to maintain and repair.

I really like the Grillo 107D, its an excellent value and is so nice compared to the other crap I fought with for years. Best tiller I ever had, its amazing how well the Grillo and BCS tillers perform compared to a common box store rear tine. My Grillo is worth it IMO, $3350 for the 107D and a tiller.

I'll let some one else weigh in on rotary plows, I want one some day for raised beds.

 

[tw3934]

Thanks for the input. Looks like the 107 is only a few hundred$ more. In this process, it seems like when I get to a good point, then for a few hundred more I can get ..... A slippery slope.

The soil is not necessarily full of rocks, but I do know there are baseball sized rocks and larger here and there. I have made some inquiries to get the area plowed with a middlebuster attachment first. I assume I should make a couple shallow passes first?

Tim

 

[SageBrush]

I have baseball size rocks here and they get hit occasionally in the upper garden. Thats not a big rock IMO, but they get your attention. On hard ground I only dig shallow and slow down when I get into rocks. You can back off the throttle in first gear when tilling to limit the jumping around. I still pull up rocks sometimes in the main garden and the land has been tilled since 1979. The joys of working on a chert mountain.

A turning plow is good for breaking new ground, I use a double bottom disc plow and there are other types of course. But, you can do it with a Grillo, they make plows for them. A half acre is pretty small, unless it too rocky I would just rototill it in probably three passes.

The 107D is a 11hp machine, not really that big. The engine loads up and works smoothly, I don't thing I would want anything with less power. Steering brakes are good to have, in this price range it makes sense to get them. The 732/739 are odd in that regard, very expensive machines for what you get. The 853 makes more sense to me. I use my steering brakes when turning at the end of the row some times or when your on a slope close to the plants and need some added direction control. If you ever want to get a mower the brakes really help then.

The Italians are the best walk behind machines I've found, wish I had bought one many years ago. Only realized they were around recently, now I'm spoiled...

 

[tw3934]

what size tiller makes sense? 22", 27?

 

[farmerboybill]

Sagebrush is right that the 107d offers the most features for the money. However, if you are definitely never going to mow, you don't *need* the third working speed or the steering brake. The G85d is a great machine with two working speeds and a locking differential at a very good value. You can order it with an 11 hp Honda engine if you feel you need that much power. BCS machine are shipped from the factory in Italy with the engines mounted. Earth tools orders Grillos without engines. They (or I, if you're close to SW WI) can mount any engine you want. They don't offer it on thier site because they feel the engines they offer are adequate. But, they will mount whatever you want, within reason. The tires are the same way. The machines are shipped without tires, so you can mount any size you want. The price to upsize is generally $50 (4-10 to 5-10, or 5-10 to 5-12, etc.)

Unless you're looking at 200+ hours use per year, I don't think the diesel option is worth the added price, noise, and vibration. I like diesels and would say yes on a BCS 853, but the power gap between the 8.5 hp diesel and the 11 hp gasoline is just too much for the greater torque of the diesel to overcome. I have sold 1 107d with a diesel and the owner is happy with it, but she wanted it for other reasons than power. As far as starting a diesel, I mounted the KD440 on my 850 and never bothered to buy a battery box. I just pull start it, BUT, I'm 6' and 220 lbs. Smaller people could have trouble.

The tiller size is basically what fits your operation best. The 20" will allow you to get through tighter rows, but the 27" will get more done. If you buy a 27" and decide you want a 20", you can change it with a couple 13mm wrenches and an hours time. The 27" is adjustable - 17, 18, 20, 22, 25, and 27" - with no additional parts. The 20" is adjustable - 17, 18, 20, 22 - with no additional parts. It can also be made into a 25 or 27" with some parts, but it's a much better value to buy the 27" right away. You can also buy an expansion kit that makes it a 31" tiller.

The rotary plow is a fantastic unit. It really shines in breaking sod. It's gentler on the ground versus a tiller, AND it does a better job at working the soil. It's also excellent at incorporating cover crops and making raised beds. It'll also dig you a trench 8 inches deep and 10 inches wide and hill your potatoes. I have tilled some very rocky soil with it with no issues. On too-big rocks, it skips up over or around them. With the plow turning on a vertical axis, it can't launch forward like a tiller would. Roots, being softer than rocks, can jam in and stall the engine. I have a BCS 850 diesel and I've killed that engine on tree roots. I used to offer my services tilling gardens and really impressed any who was breaking sod. I haven't done it in 2 years, but still get calls asking if I'd bring the plow over.

You don't need wheel extensions if you turn the wheels all the way out. The rims are two piece and with two 13 mm wrenches, you can change them to the widest setting.

 

[tw3934]

On an 85d, how is the 10hp Kohler versus the 9hp Honda? If I mow, it will be using a brush cutter to knock down heavy overgrowth. I assume that the 3rd working speed my not be an issue mowing brush? Is the 9/10HP OK for the brush cutter (ie 26" brush hog type or the 26" flail)?

 

[farmerboybill]

The flail mower is one of the most power hungry attachments you can buy. The more power you have behind it, the better. You're right that the 3rd working speed will seldom be used with the flail mower - only if you're mowing your lawn with it or maintaining paths that were previously mowed. It would also be used as a transport gear to get to where you're working faster. You would miss the brakes if you're mowing along hillsides.

Basically, if mowing is in your future, get the G107d. You're more likely to regret getting too basic a machine than you are to regret paying the extra $400.

 

[SageBrush]

I use 3rd gear when moving the machine to another area, I lower the rpm to about half throttle or so and its a brisk walk. Lets you get moving and you don't have to put put along getting to the far end of your property etc.

IMO the 9hp and 11hp Honda are a great motor. Although I haven't tried any Subaru's. But I greatly prefer Honda because I've had a few and haven't been disappointed in them so far. Had Kohlers too, prefer Honda. You have to compare industrial rated motors though, but all I know is my 20 plus year old Honda's are still running with just basic maintenance and they are usually lower on noise. The current 11 hp Honda on the 107D has a good muffler, no ear plugs required...

 

[plumberroy]

I have the G85d, Kohler engine and 5x10x20 wheels, a 22in tiller and a zanon lawnmower. As mentioned above if you can only afford 1 the tiller is more useful . I have spent a lot of time behind the original gravely rotary plow so I know what a rotary plow can do. I chose my machine set up base on these factors. Engine, I have had great luck with kohler and the 10 h.p. kohler from Joel/earthtools also comes with the bigger wheels I don't have many hills so didn't need steering brakes. Between my garden and the trees, drive etc. I send more turning than straight line mowing so the 3rd gear wasn't a big need.
As far as putting big box store tillers to shame, It will till circles around what most people consider good tillers troybuilt pro series or the honda reartine . The zanon lawnmower cuts the left overs from the garden with no problem . It also handles the calf high grass after after not being dry enough to mow for two weeks with no problem. If you get the 85D I think the 20 in wheels are the way to go with either engine
Roy