Concrete Floor Leveling Question

[Richard]

Added a mudroom onto house. Has concrete floor. When the wife told the construction people what she wanted, she said she wanted a floor drain. My wife fails to understand that words have meanings.

What she WANTED was a drain to use for the sink. The drain would attach to the downspout drains and go to the woods, verses into septic system (no way to reach it NOR any way to reach household plumbing)
What she WANTED was a wall mounted connector to attach the sink to.....what she told them was a floor drain. Therefore, what she GOT was a drain in the corner of the room, on the floor. To add insult to the injury, the floor has a slope to the drain (duh!)

Well, that's NOT what she wanted.... and now, when we put the vanity cabinet where it will be (room is 90% in drywall, floor is still raw concrete) anyway, because of the spacing and the slope to the drain, the vanity cabinet has a BAD rock/roll problem. Probably 3/4" out of level from one edge to the other (one edge is pretty close to slope of drain, other is on flat ground)

I know we also have a high spot on the floor. No idea how high, let's call it 3/8" (again, no clue) She wants to put tile down on this floor so now the high spot and the slope are going to be an issue. She likes the idea of 2x2 tiles which will only make these issues worse.

*IDEA* What if we level the floor!

So now I'm looking around for how to level the floor and, what to use for it. I've not taken a (straight level) to the BUMP in the floor to gauge it but when we were setting the drywall down on edge to adjust things, that was the only high spot that was obvious. I might be able to grind that down if it's just in that spot and then only focus on the slope for the floor drain.

So that's the gist of the back story.

I've never done something like this. What might I use? Did a cursory search and found something like this: https://www.bobvila.com/articles/leveling-a-concrete-floor/

I've told the wife she should use 12x12 tiles instead of 24x24 as it will follow the contour a bit easier (but she LOVES big tile)...


Side question....on the floor drain, it APPEARS that the drain assembly itself (which is embedded into the concrete) is a 6x6 square assembly. Has a 'bowl' in it to collect water, BUT, the actual drain comes up THROUGH the bowl so the bowl is actually more to seperate things like a sediment filter. The drain part itself I'm guessing is 1 1/4 to maybe 1 1/2". This is a mud room sink. I don't have anything to connect to so I'm thinking take the tailpiece and P-trap from the sink and simply "stuff" the output tube into this drain hole (I'm hoping the ID and OD sizes mate verses being the same)

Her lack of attention to verbal details is what got us into this. After all, they should KNOW what she meant..... (sigh).

Thoughts?

 

[ponytug]

A few ideas;
I wouldn't use the self leveling material. With your drain at floor level, you don't really have operating room.
I would regard the slope to the drain as good workmanship on the part of your builders. Having the drain in a corner makes it less conspicuous.
Get out your straight edge and work radially out from the drain. Any truly high spots get ground down with a diamond cup/plate in an angle grinder. Once you have a uniformly smooth floor, you can go to step #2.
I think that large tile on a basically curved floor is problematic. Either go for small (2"x2") tile on a large pattern, or something irregular like brick or stone pieces.
I would put waterproof backing up the wall 6-12", and tile up it so that you can hose things out when needed.
My personal vote would be for an epoxy floor with enough sand added at the end for traction. Don't do an expoxy coating if your soil is damp, and the slab is not isolated from the soil. (Waterproof barrier film installed before the pour.)
I would shim your vanity level and fasten it to the floor.
The drain installed sounds perfect for the intended usage; do put cleaning it out on your cleaning list, make sure that it gets watered periodically, and that the grate is fine enough to keep out mice.

It sounds like it will be a great mud room when finished!

All the best,

Peter

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Learn to live with the floor as is. You can tile it, you can level the cabinets. A floor drain is good to have in a mud room. Every commercial restroom and laundry has a floor drain.

 

[Richard]

Interesting comments & points of view. Hadn't really thought about shimming the cabinet. (currently have a 3/4" piece under it to see how things fit so that's a perspective)

Oh, and she bought a faucet that is for a shower/tub.....not a lavatory. It's a wall mount with nothing in the wall to mount it to other than the plumbing. This is going to be fun.

To add complication to the wall mounted faucet (and might be what bails me out) On this specific wall, we've got 1/2" drywall BUT, she is then going to add 3/4" T&G wood slats to essentially end up with a wall of wood. It will be about 1 1/4" thick. She's full of tricks that I/we get to then figure out how to implement.

 

[BleedingOrange]

Richard, not trying to be harsh, but where were you when your wife was detailing all the info that she wanted to the contractors ? What percentage of women know anything about construction, and clearly expressing their thoughts to tradespeople ? As far as a solution to fix the problem you now have to deal with, I guess it depends how **** you are about fixing stuff that isn,t right.

 

[Richard]

Richard, not trying to be harsh, but where were you when your wife was detailing all the info that she wanted to the contractors ? What percentage of women know anything about construction, and clearly expressing their thoughts to tradespeople ? As far as a solution to fix the problem you now have to deal with, I guess it depends how **** you are about fixing stuff that isn,t right.

Heh, I wondered if someone would mention something like this....

At one time, she wanted to buy a second home in Florida. So I found a job opportunity down there, took it. She lived here as her father was ailing (now passed) and wanted to be closer to him. About 5 months after I moved into an apartment down there (I'd rather live there for a year and learn the lay of the land instead of rushing down for a weekend visit and having to buy a house only to decide later on "oh, if ONLY I had known......")

Anyway, so the way it panned out is I worked down there for three years as it took a bit of time to find a good opportunity for me back here. She "wanted to surprise" me when I returned.

While I was gone, she added the Mudroom onto the house and above it, what we call the "game room" (though nobody plays any games in there and there's not enough room for a full sized pool table)

So I not only "wasn't here" I was very much "not here" as I was in Florida when this happened.

She's designed 99% of the house so I've told her she can do what she wants (her father gave us the land next to his house to build on so who am I to dictate anything!)

Her single mistake (and I mean this literally..... about the ONLY thing I can really be critical of) is, she had a door to the outside from the mudroom. This is fine. She did NOT want a casual visitor to think it was the main door (never mind you can clearly see the french doors in the center of the house). So, she didn't want anyone to think THIS was the door to the house, so she installed a 24" door.

24"

Twenty four inch, as in two feet.

HORRIFIC door size to have if you are going to be say, carrying tools in/out, how about a pole saw? How about a shop vac, chain saw, LARGE dog (we've got Great Pyrenese) heck, we can't even carry the vanity cabinet very easily through the door.....

So other than the very narrow door, she's done a great job. She was however, very unclear and probably confused to her own goals on the drain. In the beginning, she WAS going to have a 'dog washing station' in here. Fine. Then, she was going to have a TUB for the dogs. Fine. Then it was a sink. Fine. As I tell her "I don't care WHAT you do.....just MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!"

So she was probably discussing how to wash the dogs and a drain.....so the floor drain makes 100% sense. She likely then changed her mind (she's never been 100% clear with me, she's always said that she told them she was going to put a sink in however, I've dealt with her changing of mind.....so I have to leave that door open)

So again, I was in Florida and not here for the surprise she was building for me.

Now you know!

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

If the wood "finish" is going across behind the sink/vanity, cut out the drywall from stud to stud and put a piece of 1/2" plywood in its place. Then just cover over it with the 3/4" t&g. That way there is backing for the faucet mount.

As for the floor, you can get an extension to put on the floor drain, then use the self leveling floor cement. I believe you said you were going to use the floor drain as the drain for the sink, so anything on the floor won't be able to drain into it anyway. I am assuming that the drain will be under the cabinet.

Using the small floor tile will cover any imperfections much easier than larger tiles. I have used the floor leveler on many jobs over the years without any issues. Add the acrylic additives to make it harder and have better adhesion.

Don't overthink it, just adapt to what you have. This is a simple job with a simple solution.

 

[Richard]

If the wood "finish" is going across behind the sink/vanity, cut out the drywall from stud to stud and put a piece of 1/2" plywood in its place. Then just cover over it with the 3/4" t&g. That way there is backing for the faucet mount.

We've not turned too much attention to the faucet yet but this is a good idea. A normal faucet will have those 'nuts' that fit on the under side to compress to the vanity top and hold the faucet. I've gone through the box. I've actually looked at and read the (worthless) instructions.... there are no nuts with this. I'm going to have to hard mount (so your idea is fantastic) a 3/4' 90 degree female fitting with 'ears' to secure it. This will then screw into that, very much like your tub spout fits into a fitting inside the wall, blind.

 

[4570Man]

A 3/4 slope across a room isn’t that bad. Just make it up with mortar and lay the tile.

 

[Richard]

Not across the room, this slope happens within 12" of the wall. The floor is essentially flat then this floor drain is "counter sunk" into the concrete floor and this is where the fall is.

Rest of the floor might have some normal ups/downs but the location of the drain is sharp and sudden. Unfortunately, it's transition is where the cabinet feet are (on one side of the cabinet) so the OTHER side of the cabinet are fine.

 

[tfuller]

We've not turned too much attention to the faucet yet but this is a good idea. A normal faucet will have those 'nuts' that fit on the under side to compress to the vanity top and hold the faucet. I've gone through the box. I've actually looked at and read the (worthless) instructions.... there are no nuts with this. I'm going to have to hard mount (so your idea is fantastic) a 3/4' 90 degree female fitting with 'ears' to secure it. This will then screw into that, very much like your tub spout fits into a fitting inside the wall, blind.

Hard to tell exactly what you working with without pictures but if you have a tub faucet then that will need to be mounted to blocking inside the wall. Sounds like you already have drywall installed so that is going to have to come out so you can properly install everything. Is the drywall normal white board or green board for wet locations? I don't think it would be a bad idea to use the green board in this room/location.

 

[tfuller]

Not across the room, this slope happens within 12" of the wall. The floor is essentially flat then this floor drain is "counter sunk" into the concrete floor and this is where the fall is.

Rest of the floor might have some normal ups/downs but the location of the drain is sharp and sudden. Unfortunately, it's transition is where the cabinet feet are (on one side of the cabinet) so the OTHER side of the cabinet are fine.

To bad you can't just put the sink over the drain so that is hidden under it. Would just need to have it installed on legs so the water an go under.

 

[Richard]

I agree about the greenboard (I've used durrock in all other water locations)

This specific wall though, is widely open because of needing to deal with the floor.....which means I have to deal with the cabinet.....which then means, I need to deal with the plumbing.....

So it's all open as we get other things done and now, we are turning our attention to this location. I don't mind regular drywall (which is what's here) because we're only using it to close up the wall and keep the insulation in place. She's going to add 3/4" T&G to the wall for the finish. I asked what if we used Teak as I made a vanity top out of solid Teak in our 1/2 bath.... she said no, too expensive. She wants to use 1x6 T&G clear pine so that's what it is. It is likely to get wet "every now & then" but as a practice, I don't see this room getting used much.... even less the sink. She bought too pretty of a porcelain vessel to be doing her plants & gardening stuff in it, besides, she's got a hose just outside for that.

As a practical matter, this sink is probably not needed at all. But, I digress back to.... I tell her she can do what she wants and to that end, I don't care. If she wants a sink, we'll make it happen one way or another.

(then in 4 years, she'll decide she wants to instead change it to a stand up shower, or remove it, or make it a car wash or SOMETHING..... just to "update" things HA!)

 

[3gunr]

Take the faucet back and get the right one , You have not mentioned anything about whether there is even plumbing in the wall period. You can drop the drain pipe right down into the floor drain , Been doing remodeling for over 40 yrs Cant remember a woman ever knowing what she was doing including my wife and sisters who i have worked for many times, You can cut the tile in kind of a pie shape to fit the slope in the floor , but 2x2 tile suck on uneven concrete.

 

[Gee Ray]

I had a tile company for 10 years. Your issue is not that big of a problem. If the drain is for the sink only then as stated before either add an extension to the drain or chip out the floor and add the correct connections for the drain. Then clean and scrape the floor. You then can use the self level concrete to build up the low spots in the floor. Self leveling concrete is found in the flooring section of the box stores. Some of the self leveling concrete requires a bonding agent. Read the instructions.

You may need to grind the high spots if they are really bad but I can not tell you that with the supplied information. You may need to do what we called a "mud set" to level the floor tile.

It might behoove you to hire a good tile man. He can make it look good. It is not the end of the world.

 

[ponytug]

Interesting comments & points of view. Hadn't really thought about shimming the cabinet. (currently have a 3/4" piece under it to see how things fit so that's a perspective)

Oh, and she bought a faucet that is for a shower/tub.....not a lavatory. It's a wall mount with nothing in the wall to mount it to other than the plumbing. This is going to be fun.

To add complication to the wall mounted faucet (and might be what bails me out) On this specific wall, we've got 1/2" drywall BUT, she is then going to add 3/4" T&G wood slats to essentially end up with a wall of wood. It will be about 1 1/4" thick. She's full of tricks that I/we get to then figure out how to implement.

There are gizmos for in wall support of faucets, but in this case, I would just rip open the dry wall so you can install what you need. You can have the sink drain on to the floor drain, but I wouldn't put the vanity over the floor drain. Too many ways that could go wrong; mold, rot, vermin infestations

Given the lack of clarity in use, and the size of your dogs, if it were me, I would run the durrock up at least 3-4'. I would seal the T&G with enough coats of varnish to make it waterproof. Then at some point in the future you could wash the dogs down in the mud room, if that turned out to be a plan.

Personally, I can think of lots of other ways to dissuade guests from using the mud room door. 24" would be a long, long negotiation with me, and one that I am not sure I would concede on. For sure, the second time I drop something hitting the door frame, the door would be gone. Airplane lavatory doors are wider! Is it even an exterior rated door?

Good luck with this project! It sounds like a handful.

All the best,

Peter

 

[3gunr]

I am pretty sure i have never seen a 24 in exterior door, Would definitely not meet code,

 

[jyoutz]

Shim the cabinet and use smaller tile. Tell her that you need a flat floor for 24” tile and the floor isn’t flat.

 

[newbury]

Thoughts?

First of all you have an amazing wife to handle all that "stuff" for 3 years while you vacationed in Florida.

As to the drain - from your writing it seems that it is in a depression near a wall (pics would help). So basically you need to either level it out or make it like a shallow showerpan.
The major cement companies make products that are self leveling and easy to use if you can let them set.
Sakrete has a line that seems to differ in the minimum thickness and speed of set.

 

[Richard]

We're going to try to go to town tomorrow to see about leveling material.
The "door to the exterior" (as opposed to calling it an exterior door) is 24" wide. I very much detest it and told her that had I been here at the time, I would have fought tooth & nail against it. VERY impractical aside from anything else it may or may not be.

Her sole thinking was she didn't want it mistaken for an entrance door. Well, she accomplished that. My cats & dogs have bigger doors.

I've told her (and I mean this) this door is probably the one, single thing on the house that she really fowled up. I don't know about code. I would like to think the builder would not have done it had it been against code. It's not a main entrance door. It gets you into mudroom. Another door (36" wide" gets you into garage and then the door between the house and garage is another 36" door.

Ironically, when my father (real estate developer, though he's 92 years old now & retired) anyway, when he came here for our wedding (on back patio) he went through house & stuff. He hadn't been here for 6-10 months prior to the wedding and we got a ton finished.

He said he was impressed with many of the touches we (my wife) had done to the house. He built the dream house at a Homerama in Cincinnati area 40 years ago.... he said you go to a development like that and various houses have various features as their strong point.... we had almost all of them.

Heck, she's got eight sets of french doors in/around the house. Shower large enough for person in wheelchair (she's got a niece in wheelchair), recirculating waterfall/pond... and then this stupid 24" door which is absurd.

BUT, it is what it is..... it's set inside concrete block framing so I can't take my sawzall and enlarge things. I'm stuck with it.

This faucet issue.... found out that the connectors are 3/4" STRAIGHT pipe (male) so I need to find a 3/4" straight pipe drop ear fitting to mount them to. Home Depot has nothing like that. So this will be a search too. Why she got a tub/shower faucet? She liked the looks and it was going to double for washing the dogs (which I doubt will ever ACTUALLY happen in here) It is what it is, so I'll figure out how to make it work. That's what I/we do. Make it work one way or another.