Computer Geeks

[Mrwurm]

You know who you are /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

In my quest for high speed surfing in a rural setting I have decided to network my two computers so that they can share the expected high speed connection. The latest issue of Consumer Reports magazine has a report on home networks. They said that if you are only networking two computers you do not need a hub. I have a printer at each computer so I don't think I need a router. I understand that the 'master' computer receiving the high speed internet needs to be turned on for the 'slave' to receive the connection.

Ok, what I really want to know is.......
Can I get away with two network cards, cat5, and NO hub ?

 

[jwstewar]

You can, but I don't recommend it. Computer A is the Master, Computer B is the slave you are on computer B reading a great thread on TBN, your counter part is on Computer A doing her thing of installing software and it requires a reboot. Guess what? You just got booted off. Depending if you want to go wireless or not for around $79 for hardwired or $129 for wireless router/hub w/ a built in firewall it wouldn't be worth the hassle. Plus won't put any overhead on either computer.

 

[Mrwurm]

Jim, would I need a separate hub and router or do they combine these into one unit? I can get a 5 port 10/100 switched hub for $49 and a Linksys 4 port router for $89. Can the router act as the hub or do I need a separate hub ?
Thanks for helping the technically challenged /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[MikePA]

With any broadband, always on, Internet access you should really have a number of items...Here's how I am set up at home.


Internet-----DSL modem-----Hawking Tech Internet Firewall/Router-----Netgear Switch

The DSL modem was provided by my ISP. The firewall protects you from hackers on the Internet. I also run ZoneAlarm (free) on each PC, which also protects from hackers.

If running cables is a problem, I recommend wireless. At 11 mb it's faster than most any home broadband connection.

 

[Mrwurm]

Uh Oh, may have run into a snag. Two-way satellite is the only high speed service I can get. The satellite modem uses USB conectivity. Is there a router that can accept USB so I don't need the "master-slave" setup or am I stuck with being dependent on the master ?

 

[TerryinMD]

mrwurm,

My suggested option is to buy a passive ethernet hub (no IP address is required). Netgear manufactures some very good devices at a reasonable price. You would also need to put an ethernet card in each of your PCs. What you did not mention is the distance between the two PCs. In my case, the two PCs are in the same room and all I needed where two 3m cat5 patch cords to the ethernet hub. With most of the Windows OS's, the network configuration is very simple. Typically, you use one of the wizards to walk you through the setup.

The passive hub can also be used with a router also. The key is to have the hub between the device that is configured as the gateway to the Internet such as a router. Anything behind the router can then be connected to the hub as the router controls your access to the net. This is typically what we did at work to allow multiple workstations in our cubes. Of course, we used DHCP (protocol which assigns IP addresses dynamically to your workstation) which provided the IP addresses to all of our workstations.

If you are using a dial-up account, you can share one dial-up connection. With Windows ME and XP, you can define one PC as the gateway which then is used to dial-up your ISP and then both networked PCs may access the Internet simultaneously. With XP you can set up the built in firewall to provide some protection along with your virus protection software (I HOPE that you have either Norton or McAffee!!!)

If you do not have the PC's in the same room, the wireless solution might be a good way to go. By the time you purchased the Cat5 cable, connectors, recepticles, etc., you may be close to the same cost as going wireless. So, a little cost analysis may in order along with your comfort level in running Cat5 cable and terminating the copper pairs correctly.

I'm not too sure about the master/slave configuration. I do not think that having one computer turned on or off has an effect but then again in a typical master/slave relationship the slave does not operate properly without the master. Hmmm.... maybe another one of the tractor/computer geeks may shed some light on this.

Hope this helps.
Terry

 

[Mrwurm]

Terry, the computers are approximately 100 ft apart. I have no problem running a cable between them.

Wireless ? Now that's a whole new can of worms.

 

[MikePA]

Uh oh, this will get a little more complicated. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

Satellite box-----PC w/USB, Ethernet card and Zonealarm-----Ethernet hub

The PC with the USB connection to the satellite will be acting as a router, to the Internet and to your home network.

 

[Mrwurm]

Mike, in your example, is the primary purpose of the hub to provide firewall protection or is it necessary for the setup to work.

I contacted the satellite provider (DirecWay) and they said that their modem could not be hooked to a router. They said they don't know of any router that accepts a USB connection. So, master and slave configuration is all I can do.

 

[gws]

You can network two computers with a cross cable. I dont recoemend it but it will work fine. You can not however connect to anything else including your internet connection.

If you have a high speed internet connections, cable, dsl, satellite, etc. Get a router. These often have hubs in them, you connect all your machines to the hub, each machine has access to the internet. You often get some level of firewall protection with the router. Cost for a router isnt all that bad.
Under $100 most places, $75 if you look, can be found $50 with rebates.

 

[MikePA]

Jerry,

The satellite modem would be connected to one PC (call it the Satellite PC), this PC would also be connected to a hub via an Ethernet connection. IOW, the Satellite PC will also need an Ethernet card. The other PCs will also need Ethernet cards and would connect to the hub.

The other PCs would access the IOnternet through the Satellite PC. This is accomplished by the TCP/IP set up on the other PCs. The TCP/IP set up on the other PCs would point to the IP address of the Satellite PC as their gateway address.

ZoneAlarm, running on the Satellite PC, would be your firewall.

 

[Mrwurm]

Thanks for clearing that up Mike. I undrstand what I need to do.

Random Thoughts:.........

Several people have now told me that I need a Hub to connect the two PC's. I understand why three PC's would need a hub but I'm still not sure why two would need one. (I'll do it anyway)

If I run 100ft of cat5 to the 'slave' will the slave have slower internet response? Seems that it would.

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>Several people have now told me that I need a Hub to connect the two PC's. I understand why three PC's would need a hub but I'm still not sure why two would need one. (I'll do it anyway)</font color=blue>

With 2 PCs, a crossover cable from the Satellite PC to the second PC would work fine. Using a hub makes things less complicated and allows for expansion should you want to connect additional PCs to the network.

<font color=blue>If I run 100ft of cat5 to the 'slave' will the slave have slower internet response? Seems that it would. </font color=blue>

Everyone on the network will get the same Internet response time. We're talking speed of light here, or whatever speed electricity travels over the CAT5 cable. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Mrwurm]

Thanks Mike /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

 

[looch]

The Ethernet card has a "send" pair and a "receive" pair. Regualr CAT 5 cable is "straight-through," so that the send pairs are in the same place at both ends of the cable. If you took 2 Ethernet cards and connected them directly you would be "sending" to the "send" pair of the other card and "receiving" from the receive end - not very effective. A cross-over cable simply flips the send and receive pairs at the other end of the cable - something a hub already does for you.

 

[Mrwurm]

Paul, thanks for that explanation. A computer geek here at work was trying to explain the same thing but he did'nt quite know how to explain. Once again, TBN'ers rule !!

 

[TerryinMD]

FYI - Cat5 can support 100mbs!! So, if you have ethernet cards that support and are configured to 100mbs, you will have ample network speed between your PCs.

Yes , be careful on the 568A or 568B connections at the end of each cable. If you go to <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.blackbox.com/>Black Box</A>, they have diagrams of all the cabling connections. Additionally, they will be more than happy to sell you cables already connectorized. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Hmmm... I just though of something. With direct cabling, you may have an increased chance of packet collisions - I think. You may want to ask someone about that.

Another nice thing about using a hub is that you get lots of pretty flashing lights, going blink... blink.... blink.blink. blink.... /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif As you may detect, I am easily amused. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Terry

 

[Mrwurm]

Ok, I'm seeing Cat5e cables out there. They are rated at 350mhz and are priced the same as cat5. What should I get?

Also, I talked to an online cable retailer and he told me to buy one of his 'cross-over' cables for the same price as a regular cable and don't get a hub.

Not sure what to do /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

 

[DavidInNH]

The Cat5e cables are higher quality than Cat5 (the 'e' stands for enhanced). If they are the same price, go for the Cat5e.

I wouldn't bother with a hub if you only have two nodes. When you add a third node, you can replace the cross-over cable and add a hub.

 

[DavidInNH]

<font color=blue>Hmmm... I just though of something. With direct cabling, you may have an increased chance of packet collisions - I think. You may want to ask someone about that.</font color=blue>

You shouldn't see any difference in collisions. If your NICs will run in full-duplex, you won't see any collisions.

You aren't alone on the blinking lights - my previous employer used lots of blinking lights because it helped sell equipment. Lights out in the QA lab was pretty impressive.